Re: Perfecting the shot
Hmm, it seems quite difficult to diagnose from across the keyboard,
perhaps a video of your issue may help us?
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Re: Perfecting the shot
The puck doesnt have any holes to show forms of channeling though. I usually updose in order to get a firm puck for the 6910 and then use an ice cream stick to level it and then just tamp it with 15-20kgs of force.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Originally posted by 392A3B3D36312C3D580 link=1310366011/21#21 date=1312534521even if I get 60 mls in 25-30 seconds. It could taste either bitter or sour
Could also be the result of inconsistent preparation.
Channeling during the extraction could still result in a 60ml in 25-30second poor, but would reflect badly in the cup.
What is your espresso preparation ritual like?
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Hmm but Ive read before that 10 minutes is enough for the 6910 but I could try it.
Yeah I do purge the grinder to make sure it doesnt choke up and push out chunks.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
You may want to "purge" the grinder for a couple of seconds, as the EM0480 is known for having a high grind retention.Originally posted by 001302040F081504610 link=1310366011/21#21 date=1312534521Edit: Forgot to mention that Im using the EM0480 grinder.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Originally posted by 243726202B2C3120450 link=1310366011/21#21 date=1312534521I usually leave my machine on for 10 minutes to get it warmed up as well, so temperature should be out of the equation.
sour can be from a cold machine. You might benefit from a 20 minute warm up time, even though after 10 minutes it appears to be hot enough.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Yeah I have the same problem, Im currently using an EM6910 and even if I get 60 mls in 25-30 seconds. It could taste either bitter or sour. It could even still be under a week post roast, and I store the beans in a 1 way valve bag. Just that I open it every time I want to pull a shot, I guess it does effect it somewhat. Ill usually put the beans straight back after Im done and squeeze out all the remaining air in the bag.
I usually leave my machine on for 10 minutes to get it warmed up as well, so temperature should be out of the equation. I tamp evenly, warm up the PF and cups before pouring my shot.
Edit: Forgot to mention that Im using the EM0480 grinder.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
I wouldnt be relying on that to ensure accurate consistent dosing.Originally posted by 5F584B584F5C5A585654535A3D0 link=1310366011/17#17 date=1310552782my grinder doses 18gm
I grind to a mound, smooth it off with my finger and tamp very lightly, maybe 2kg? You can adjust the grind fineness or the dose by changing the smoothing but only do one at a time, try and keep everything else consistent.
When I had a Lucy (Silvia with built in grinder) my puck always showed the screw imprint after I had pulled the shot, but not if I locked it in and then took it out again, but it was close ( 5 cent piece on top of puck gives you a guide).
Sounds like you have got it pretty much dialled in, so from here on in judge your success by how it tastes 8-)
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Re: Perfecting the shot
If it is over extraction could you pour half a shot and see if the flavor is gone this could be a clue.
Also how hot the machine is can make a difference if the machine has been used in the last 10 minutes it may be hotter that the first shot from cold.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Ive been going now for three years using a first-class machine and the best beans (Beanbay) at the right time post-roast and I still fuss about the right combination of grind, tamp, dose and temp. The moment I use a new bean I start learning again.
When I first got my machine, I worked with the one bean (WOW) from the one batch until I worked out the right combination of factors - then I applied those principles to subsequent beans/batches. I dont think you can ever allow yourself to get complacent if you want consistently high quality shots. But then who would want to be complacent about great coffee.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
well as expected I ran out of beans before I could figure it out. Ive been playing with my tamp technique, my grinder doses 18gm and im getting good shots now in 25-30secs. I think it may just be my technique and learning this vastly more exposing machine!
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Try to be as consistent as you can. Keep your tamp and dose the same and adjust the grind to get your timing right.
What G@G described above is called "temp surfing" there are lots of posts about it and lots of information if you google for it. Forum member Randy G has a good write up on his blog http://www.espressomyespresso.com/ chapter 58 but remember he is running his on 110 volts so there might be some variance with your machine.
Try and get hold of one of those pics that tells you where on your tongue flavours are, then let the espresso wash over your tongue and see if it is bitter or sour you are tasting, you could even go as far as doing the same with lemon juice to get a feel for sour and/or cocoa for bitter.
Persist, it is worth it 8-)
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Re: Perfecting the shot
thanks again guys, very helpful, informative and easy to understand for a newbie.
I have noticed, tamping to the rancilio portafilter grove still does put a dent in the puck from the screw, so I might find a flat screw to replace that..
today I didnt tamp as hard evidently, because my 2oz shot took 20secs. it actually tasted better.
Oh I am using a naked PF, and the shot is flowing nicely into the centre as Ive read it should.
This either means:
-Im under dosing - or dosing less than I expected to
-The bean prefers slight under extraction
-The pressure thing is too high. I might hunt down a pressure tester
Ive probably got 2 pucks left of the bean so Well see how the sumatra mandheling goes.
I must say the silvia has been a big learning step.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
One thing Ive noticed is that as I upgrade my equipment the flavours have become much more intense. Changing machine (to a Europiccola), grinder and coffee (from Grinders house blend to beanbay) at once is a big jump. Im suspecting that what I think is bitter may just be be the taste of good/different coffee.
Anyway the experimentation is fun and the hints and ideas I get from here are invaluable. (sorry to hijack your thread but we seem in the same place)
As another suggestion, try making a double ristretto and see if it is sweeter.
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Re: Perfecting the shot
Hi. Im baaack.
Ok. What youre doing looks ok for a espresso shot. ie28seconds for 2 oz.
What i meant by "flashing" is the boiling water that comes through the group head when you do a cooling flush before you lock her in and press the brew button.
If you start brewing once the light goes out, the water coming to the puck is too hot, so the taste would have a burnt flavour. So, what you do is wait for the Power light to go out, then press the brew button and let the overly hot water out until you dont hear that hissing noise. Takes about 5-7 seconds of flushing to do it.
The Rancilio Silvias boiler temperature at the top of the heating cycle will be approx. 120 deg c. By the time the water hits the group head, you minus 15 degrees from that when the water goes through the group head, which makes that about 105 deg c. A bit too hot.
When you dont hear that hissing noise, the water going through the group is below boiling point, which is better for brewing. The magic temp should be 92-94 degrees depending on the bean.
Have a look at this link so that you get a better idea. Hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhxvDusY3jk
Bank on about 3 minutes for a plunger infusion for the ideal grind that resembles coarse sand.
If unsure, get a roastery to grind some for you specifically for plunger, then look at the grinds and you will see what i mean.
Plenty of info about regarding plunger coffee.
Gary at G
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