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  • #16
    Re: Spluttery stream

    Originally posted by 56737C7B777E252A120 link=1323048032/13#13 date=1323302521
    Originally posted by 323A32353F395B0 link=1323048032/9#9 date=1323214042
    hm, that step is interesting - I dont use a single basket for various reasons, and the taper is one of them, so I dont have much advice to offer.  Two thoughts are buying a different shaped single basket, or using a smaller tamper so it fits within the ridge.

    Ive attached a shot of 4 baskets to give you some comparison, from left to right:

    Giotto double, Giotto single, VST 18g ridgeless, VST 15g rideless.

    You can see on the Giotto baskets, there is a ridge for holding on to the pf clip, and they are both tapered.  I like the VSTs because there is no taper, so tamp pressure runs evenly down the sides, there is no ridge to mess things up, but there is no single version either (oh, yes there is now).  You could try a single synesso?
    Can I ask one more probabyl silly question then? So with these baskets (VST), does getting a ridgeless one mean that it doesnt hold on to the spring properly or something, and its going to be falling out when I knock out the puck? Or what is the different between the ridge and ridgeless then?

    Good question. When we were first lobbying VST to make ridgeless baskets this was one of their most strident objections. Fortunately weve sold ridgeless Synessos for years and knew that a stronger spring is all thats required to eliminate this problem and gain the benefits of a ridgeless basket. Most of the ridgeless baskets we sell go with a new spring which sets you back a whole $4.95! There are a couple of links on http://thingscoffee.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=40_25&products_id=233 which discuss this.

    Greg

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    • #17
      Re: Spluttery stream

      So to update... Ive been improving tamping with the existing basket etc. The bottom line is Im getting good coffee out of the single basket. Its still spluttery (usually after about the first ten seconds of the pour). But Im overdosing in the sense that I still have a strong impression of the screw on the puck, and the five cent test is a clear failure. And Im possibly seriously overdosing in that sometimes I get a drip coming out over the top of the handle/basket, so Im sure thats not ideal. And the fact that I cant pull the handle anywhere near perpendicular is condemning evidence of all this, if any were needed...

      Ill hopefully grab one of the VST ridgeless double baskets soon and solve this problem once and for all.

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      • #18
        Re: Spluttery stream

        Im still working to iron out these problems and adjust to the new machine. For an update... I am using a double basket now. 18g Synesso ridgeless I think it is. That created some new problems, namely that I wasnt getting even volume between the two spouts when I used the double spout. After some reading, I took levels and re-levelled the machine. Thats resolved MOST of that problem.

        But I think the spluttering, and fast pours are even more common now. I just cant get this right! If I go really fine, and tamp pretty hard, I can get a slowish pour (but using the double basket, still probably only 12-15 seconds to pour a single shot from it) but not slow enough I wouldnt think. And even then, its more dripping, spluttering through rather than the nice smooth pour I want. And each time, after the few seconds wait, I get a bit of a rush before it settles down to what I call spluttering. Maybe I should take some video! Can you post video on here? Ive been considering the post above about the shower screen, because Im wondering whether the flow out of there is right. When I run it straight through with NO portafilter in, it flows smoothly from the screen. However, it doenst fall into the tray from all across the shower screen. Water comes out of the whole screen, but does form several streams that it comes down in. Is this even?

        Finally, when it comes to the 5c test (to get dosing right) I really need to overdose (i.e. hardly any imprint from the coin) to get things close to right.

        This is driving me crazy. Anyone got any thoughts?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Spluttery stream

          Hi Daniel,

          I have a couple of thoughts.

          1. Ditch the grinder ASAP. Its well and truely underdone for your machine and barely adequate for any mahcine. Buy something like a Compak K3P or better.
          2. Wherever the grinder goes, let the single basket follow. Theyre a waste of time. That said, you dont need to spend money on VST/Synesso/Whateveriscurrentlyinvogue yet as these only give small incremental gains. A good fitting tamper will assist, but again this does not need to cost a bomb either.
          3. Develop great technique. Use http://www.espressocompany.com.au/how-to.htm as a a guide, adjusting slightly if required to suit the shower screen of your machine.
          4. Ditch the grinder.
          5. Ditch the grinder!

          Good luck!

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Spluttery stream

            OK. So the grinder isnt really in favour then. I can ditch it (although there is no way I am getting away with buying a new one right now). Also, Id like to be sure thats the problem. At the end of the day, if its just a cosmetic thing (the flow of the pour) then I dont mind. Im getting good coffee, no doubt. But it just doesnt look cool. The tamper is a good fit. Its a pullman and its very close to being a tight fit. I think Im tamping well. I dont use the single basket anymore.

            Thanks for the weblink. Let me check that out...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Spluttery stream

              Originally posted by 267961777C777B7272717179757A140 link=1323048032/18#18 date=1326673528
              Hi Daniel,

              I have a couple of thoughts.

              1. Ditch the grinder ASAP. Its well and truely underdone for your machine and barely adequate for any mahcine. Buy something like a Compak K3P or better.
              2. Wherever the grinder goes, let the single basket follow. Theyre a waste of time. That said, you dont need to spend money on VST/Synesso/Whateveriscurrentlyinvogue yet as these only give small incremental gains. A good fitting tamper will assist, but again this does not need to cost a bomb either.
              3. Develop great technique. Use http://www.espressocompany.com.au/how-to.htm as a a guide, adjusting slightly if required to suit the shower screen of your machine.
              4. Ditch the grinder.
              5. Ditch the grinder!

              Good luck!
              Incidentally, when you say the grinder is underdone for the machine, do you mean it wont grind finely enough, or consistenly enough, or have enough increments? That grinder seemed to have rated pretty highly in various places - including by some on this site. I got it cheap, very cheap, but was hoping it would do the job for a while...!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Spluttery stream

                Took a few photos last night for the interest of anyone who is following my woes. Given that I dont know what looks normal and what doesnt, hopefully someone can tell me if this is what the water should look like flowing straight from the shower screen. And one of the used puck in the basket. Poured a great coffee this morning with the grinder on the finest setting...





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                • #23
                  Re: Spluttery stream

                  The way the water flows without coffee might tell an expert tech something but it doesnt tell me anything. 

                  The sputtering really sounds like channelling and this is often caused by over-dosing (which is different to up-dosing). Locking in the handle causes the screen to press on the coffee and this cracks the puck you just spent time tamping correctly.

                  The blurry pic of your puck looks OK but *may* show a slight over-dosing. Do try the 5 cent test, without extracting, (dry the screen!) and start from there for the dosing level. Then try and get the extraction right by varying the grind. Note--finer grinds pack tighter, requiring more coffee in the dose which doubles the effect of slowing the extraction--it can be difficult to get it perfect.

                  The reason the grinder isnt up to the machine is that the individual grounds vary too much in size and reduced the quality of the flavour--but it will do until you get really dissatisfied.

                  Greg
                  ps--sounds like you got it right once--you can do it again!
                  pps--there are shims for the grinder that will allow an even finer grind, as long as the burrs are OK.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Spluttery stream

                    So I thought Id take a video to show anyone who was wondering. OK. So nobody was wondering but Ill share it anyway. Im using a double basket now, and getting some really nice shots going that taste great. HOWEVER: I still think its pouring too quickly, and after about 5 seconds of the pour is starts to splutter and splatter everywhere making a mess of my nice clean cup. First world problem and all that, but still frustrating me. I took some video, but cant post it on the forum it looks like. Ive stuck it online, so if you want to view, http://www.divshare.com/download/16714995-b8b. Thoughts welcome...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Spluttery stream

                      Hi Daniel78,

                      If your machine is a HX machine then you probably need to do a cooling flush to purge super-heated water before pulling a shot. Iandib already suggested this as a possible source, but I didnt see your response. Can we rule this out?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Spluttery stream

                        Yep, rule that out sorry. Doing. that every time now. Thanks though...!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Spluttery stream

                          Heres a shot using a single basket on my ECM Giotto with the Naked Portafilter.  The main thing is to dose correctly and tamp to the right level and an even tamp.  I still do a polish on the tamp, more so to get rid of any grind stuck on the flat of the tamper and also to ensure I didnt tamp crooked by using my thumb, index finger and middle finger as a guide as I "polish".

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkkAO-3ElEE

                          Sorry the video is not too clear, it was taken at night under bad lighting. I probably should have cut the shot earlier, but still tasted good

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                          • #28
                            Re: Spluttery stream

                            Just a thought - your description makes me think that there is something not right with the spatial relationship between the shower screen, porta-filter and the basket. Are all these items Original Equipment? If you have acquired this machine second hand you probably wont know.
                            I wonder if a replacement shower screen may be mounted lower than it should be or if it is OE, whether the porta-filter is a ring-in.
                            The only time my machine splutters is when it is too hot and is pushing steam through the group.

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