Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

[Cortic]

Hey fellow coffeesnobs! Long time reader here just wanting to get some clarity on what I can do to improve my shots.

Here is pretty much a step by step process of what I go though every time.

1) Pre-heat machine. Pump water through group handle/basket to heat up.

2) Dry group handle/basket and grind coffee straight into it (Using Sunbeam Conical Burr EMO 480 - Setting 10)

3) As I have "de-pressurised" the group head by removing the spring I then tamp the coffee with a firm pressure.

4) Lock handle in - turn machine on for 3 secs then off.

5) Wait 5 secs then shoot 60ml into pre-heated espresso cup. Enjoy.


Now my main query is that from reading these forums most people have their Sunbeam EMO480s set somewhere between 11-15 and then it apparently takes somewhere between 20-30 secs to get 60ml. However my 60ml using setting 10 takes about 7-8 seconds. From my reading I believe that it should be taking me twice as long to extract my coffee. Just wondering what am I doing wrong? I am hesitant to reduce the grind any finer as I am worried the coffee will start to taste bitter.

Thanks in advance.

[SniffCoffee]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

3) As I have "de-pressurised" the group head by removing the spring I then tamp the coffee with a firm pressure.

Hi there Cortic.

What do you mean by this?  Do you mean youre using an unrpressurised basket?  Does your portafilter basket have lots of holes on the inside but only one hole at the bottom? 

In that case youre still using a pressurised basket.  Adjusting your tamp pressure or grind wont make much difference.

If youre not using a pressurised basket, then you might need to take the grind finer on your Sunbeam.  Try it and see - it may not be bitter.  Theres another thread being commented on fairly regularly suggesting that tamp pressure isnt going to make a huge difference to extraction speed, but adjusting the grind will.

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1332222307/33#33

Cheers

Sniff

[Bill]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

You cant compare grind setting between grinders, as they are all different. Clearly you need to go finer than 10. Or use a larger dose of coffee, assuming you have enough clearance to the showerscreen to do so.

[Bill]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

What do you mean by this? Do you mean youre using an unrpressurised basket? Does your portafilter basket have lots of holes on the inside but only one hole at the bottom?

Saecos dont have pressurised baskets. They use a device built in to the portafilter to do the same job. Its easy to remove, as Cortic has done.

[Cortic]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Hey thanks for your replies!

Sniffcoffee - The handle (which has two holes at the bottom) was dismantled to remove the spring mechanism inside as the Seaco Via Venezias come with a ppf. I followed the guide on this website to remove the spring. Did I misunderstand something here? The basket which goes into the handle is solid all the way around the sides and has hundreds of tiny holes on the bottom.

Bill - I cannot add any more coffee to the basket ive got it down to a fine art about how much I can put in and still lock it in haha. I will try a finer grind but I cant see it changing from an 8-10 sec extraction to a 25-30 sec one (or will it?)

Thanks again!

[SniffCoffee]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage


Okay thanks Bill.

In that case Cortico, try adjusting the grind finer.

Cheers

Sniff

[Cortic]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Am I correct in the assumption that a 60ml extraction should take between 25-30ml? Is that what I should be aiming for?

[David8]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

I will try a finer grind but I cant see it changing from an 8-10 sec extraction to a 25-30 sec one (or will it?)

It probably will. But you might need to wind it down 2 or 3 notches.

Theres only one way to find out.

As Bill said you cant compare the grind settings. A lot of users will have added/removed "shims" on their 480s. Which will alter the grind setting a lot.

Edited to fix a typo

[David8]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Am I correct in the assumption that a 60ml extraction should take between 25-30ml? Is that what I should be aiming for?

Yep, thats correct. But sometimes around 22secs can produce a beautiful shot anyway. I drink lattes, and aim between 22-32. Anything else gets dumped.

[Cortic]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Ill make myself an espresso in about 45 mins and keep you posted.

David8 - What do you mean by "shims"? Is this something I can easily do myself?

[David8]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Ill make myself an espresso in about 45 mins and keep you posted.

David8 - What do you mean by "shims"? Is this something I can easily do myself?

Theyre the thin washers/spaces that sit under the bottom burr on the Sunbeams and some brevilles. If the grinder isnt grinding fine enouhg, you can add a shim to lift the bottom burr up to grind finer. Likewise, you can remove a shim to allow it to grind coarser. Sunbeam often provides these for free, if you give them a call. But Ive heard people have had success with thin pieces of aluminium foil.

However, you have 10 settings to play with. You may not need to adjust the grind using the shims.

David

[iaindb]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

I agree with the advise so far - you cant compare numbers between grinders, and you wont need a shim until you hit the end of the adjustment on your grinder.

Yes grinding finer will make a difference. Sometimes one or two notches is enough to go from 10 seconds to choked (nothing comes out).

Just to clarify, a single should give you about 25mL in 25-30s and a double should give you about 50mL in 25-30s. Note the timing is the same. Always cut it short when it starts going pale or nears the correct volume, dont wait till 30s just for the sake of it.

[blend52]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

you can add a shim to lift the bottom burr up to grind finer. Likewise, you can remove a shim to allow it to grind coarser. Sunbeam often provides these for free, if you give them a call. But Ive heard people have had success with thin pieces of aluminium foil.

  Not criticising, but foil is not the best option.  Its too thin (<0.01mm) so you will need several layers to effect a useful change, and because its so thin its very difficult to handle without wrinkling it which will throw the burr allignment off....not what you want. !
  A better substute for OEM shims is  thin , hard , plastic film ( EG:- the type that is used for screen protectors on smart phones etc) . This is thin enough ( 0.075mm) to give small adjustment, hard enough not to "compact",  but wont wrinkle and can be easily cut to size & shape.

[David8]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Not criticising, but foil is not the best option.  Its too thin (<0.01mm) so you will need several layers to effect a useful change, and because its so thin its very difficult to handle without wrinkling it which will throw the burr allignment off....not what you want. !
  A better substute for OEM shims is  thin , hard , plastic film ( EG:- the type that is used for screen protectors on smart phones etc) . This is thin enough ( 0.075mm) to give small adjustment, hard enough not to "compact",  but wont wrinkle and can be easily cut to size & shape.

Thats alright... Ive never used foil, just heard others have used it. Glad you pointed it out.

[Cortic]

Re: Need advice on Saeco Via Venezia Usage

Okay so after doing some research I dismantled the grinder - removed the shims and went down to the local hardware store. They didnt sell shims but they did sell a stainless steel washer the same diameter as the shims but about 5x the thickness. So now ive removed all three shims from the EMO 480 and replaced them with 1x washer. Got the grinder on setting 22 and my espresso took about 19 secs to get to 60ml. I am thinking I may need to now bump up the increments slightly however the grinder already struggled to spit the grounds out at its current setting. Any suggestions? Or is this normal?