My first 'long Macchiato' experience was as a take-away from one of the best Brisbane cafes. I dashed out during the morning coffee break from a conference (to avoid the 'hotel coffee') and ordered the first thing that I saw on the cafe menu - which happened to be the 'long Macchiato'.
I received a medium sized take-away cup and bolted back to the conference. On opening I found I had a reasonable facsimilie for a normal sized Latte.
"Hmmmm...." I thought, that is not what I was expecting.
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A basic question: What is the difference of a latte and a strong latte?
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Yes, that has been my experience with the 'long' mac. Places I frequent serve the 'short' as a single shot in a small espresso cup, and the 'long' in a piccolo glass....but is normally a double shot with normal extraction (up to 60 mls). Tends to be an 'after dinner' coffee for me. Spent some time in Paris where this was the only thing I could face consistently (except it's called a 'noisette' rather than 'machiatto')....the dash of milk covered up the predictable faults in the coffee.....and their attempts at latte/flat white style drinks were uniformly awful.Originally posted by flynnaus View PostI was a bit perplexed when I ordered my first machiato and was asked whther I wanted long or short. A long machiato seems to be not so much a piccolo latte but a double shot of espresso (ie 45- 60 mls) with a dash of milk.
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I was a bit perplexed when I ordered my first machiato and was asked whther I wanted long or short. A long machiato seems to be not so much a piccolo latte but a double shot of espresso (ie 45- 60 mls) with a dash of milk.Originally posted by Rocky View PostI can cope with all the many variations mentioned here except the so called "long Macchiato".
If I had a cafe I would have a sign that said "Please do not order a long Macchiato - there is no such thing - ask for advice".
Among other variations I've had on the machiato are a ristretto with a dash of textured milk (poured as a mini-heart and even a mini rosetta), a short black with a dash of cold milk (the milk sank to the bottom and looked just a short black), a piccolo latte, a mocha and a puzzled look.
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I can cope with all the many variations mentioned here except the so called "long Macchiato".
The amount of milk in a Macchiato is so small (i.e. - stain) or not present except as froth - that I simply cannot see how you can have a "long Macchiato" using milk.
To my mind such a beast could only be a Piccolo Latte or small Flat White of some description.
I could maybe imagine that a long Macchiato could be interpreted as a Macchiato with added hot water - served in a 100ml glass or cup. So in other words - a small 'long black' with some froth on top. I have never seen it served that way however.
It really annoys me when I order a Macchiato and I am asked whether I want a "long Macchiato".
If I had a cafe I would have a sign that said "Please do not order a long Macchiato - there is no such thing - ask for advice".
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I just love that Ol grumpy - that is gold! And yeah, all this terminology can be funny....but at the same time I find it fun. I'm still with you Ausnadian - I like your logic & with coffee you HAVE TO BE really clear about what & how you are making it - thats how people learn what to order and what it is that they are ordering. Ol grumpy, you might be surprised - you might just enjoy a piccolo on a ristretto base!
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Originally posted by Ol_Grumpy View PostAaaah yes, the snobbery of it all... :tic
I'm a tradie and I spose a bit 'rough round the edges'...
I don't know for how many years I used to stubbornly order a 'cup of chino' somehow believing 'chino' was the Italian word for coffee...
You're lucky you ordered in person and didn't send one of your kids off to get it. They might have come back with two pairs of smart casual slacks.
Cheers
BOSW
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A basic question: What is the difference of a latte and a strong latte?
Aaaah yes, the snobbery of it all... :tic
I'm a tradie and I spose a bit 'rough round the edges'...
I don't know for how many years I used to stubbornly order a 'cup of chino' somehow believing 'chino' was the Italian word for coffee...
And for the missus it was a 'cup of chino'- in a glass... Cause that was just a girlie drink...
It took me years and years to actually order a 'Latte'....
Now, you want me to order a Piccolo eh?
Yeah right... And it's gonna be made by a real short guy in a green suit wearing a pointy hat and a gold ring on his left pinkie finger and a diamond set into his right front tooth?
What on earth will they come up with next?
:can't wait
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I wasn't talking about different sizes, but more of the standard latte glass you get in most places. I think what people don't get, is that if every barista had the same standards, then ordering wouldn't be such a confusing time. Strong should mean strong, double should mean double. Like Chris said, then the barista could adjust amount based on the volume ordered.
So if a large take away normal latte = 2 shots, then a strong large take away would be two double ristrettos. So amount stays the same. Milk will always be a variable as different cups will always = different milk proportions, and not many would accept a large cup with the tide out because the barista says it's "in proportion" with the amount of espresso
This is how I ran my machine, and I had very few complaints. In the end, if the barista stays true to the way they make it, the customer will be able to say "that double was a bit strong" and next time will confidently be able to order a strong instead.
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Yeh, it's a bit trickier if ordering from a table. I ordered a ristretto at a cafe after a lunch meeting and the poor young lass replied 'I'm sorry I don't think we do that'...so I asked her to give me 1/2 a double espresso and quite a nice (near) ristretto came back.Originally posted by flynnaus View PostI went to a fairly well known cafe in Sydney and asked for exactly that - a latte on a double ristretto base. The response - "So you want a weak latte?". Fortunately, the barista overheard and told the waiter that she knew what I wanted.
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I went to a fairly well known cafe in Sydney and asked for exactly that - a latte on a double ristretto base. The response - "So you want a weak latte?". Fortunately, the barista overheard and told the waiter that she knew what I wanted.Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View PostI usually just ask for a latte on a double ristretto base....reduces room for confusion, and I generally get something close to what I'm after.Last edited by flynnaus; 6 October 2012, 08:52 PM.
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I am really very tempted to comment on this thread, but I fear that Shakespeare has beaten me to it
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I usually just ask for a latte on a double ristretto base....reduces room for confusion, and I generally get something close to what I'm after.
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If you scratch under the surface and ask your customers how they would describe the word 'strong' you will find they don't want a coffee that is like an assault on their taste buds, but rather, a pleasant flavour that doesn't dissipate quickly but lingers for 20 minutes or more.
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Hello mmOriginally posted by muppet_man67 View Postoh dear. This thread was so simple.
Is a strong coffee a doppio ristretto or a double shot?
Answer: It depends on how the cafe wants to serve it and what the customer is going to expect.
There is no actual industry standard. There is no book that can tell you without exeption.
A barista is not unknowing if he gives a full double as that may be to the expectation of the majority of their customers.
I serve strongs as a full double shot. I have many customers who get this regularly and would consider a doppio ristretto too weak. I also have customers who ask for stronger/strongish coffee or specifically ask for a doppio ristrettos. Thats how we do it. I'm sure there are other places who would have their customers specifically ask for a double shot. Thats fine too.
PS. Whenever someone came into the cafe I used to own and asked for a 'strong' coffee, I used to ask how they would describe the word 'strong'. It confused most people. Rarely did they ultimately describe 'strong' as a big belt of coffee. In the vast majority of cases, they agreed that 'strong' meant that they would be able to experience "a pleasant, long-lasting flavour."
There is no right or wrong answer when you are a barista. There is only making the customer a coffee that they like or dislike.
I don't understand why you decided to quote me for your 'oh dear...' remark. After all, it wasn't me who came up with non-supported, incorrect info.
"Prepare and Serve Espresso" is a nationally accredited and recognised course here in Australia, and the information I provided above, comes from a text used nationally as reference material for the course. If you do the course these are the standards that will be taught and expected of you.
Because the cafe you work in chooses to do it another way is up to the owner. I don't dispute that but it's wrong to infer that the reason you do this is because there is no industry standard. I just hope every barista who works at your place does it the same way.
"There is only making the customer a coffee that they like or dislike." Nicely said!
If you scratch under the surface and ask your customers how they would describe the word 'strong' you will find they don't want a coffee that is like an assault on their taste buds, but rather, a pleasant flavour that doesn't dissipate quickly but lingers for 20 minutes or more.
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