Originally posted by Wynton87
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Well in my opinion yes, those standards of double basket (typically rated as a 14gr basket) being able to produce 2x30ml shots are fairly old school standards and based on an italian style of coffee drinking whereby they add sugar most of the time so some blonding doesnt really matter to them. I mean some people may argue with me a bit on that but personally thats my taste preference, i would encourage you to try it yourself and some up with your own opinion - you may find it too intense, then you could completely ignore everything iv said.
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Kaiser, before throwing out the baby with the bathwater, keep trying
There are many variables, so you have much to play with.
Temperature of 93°C--providing it is accurate and at the shower screen, -- is ideal. So I'd leave that alone.
Dosing: 19 grams of grinds, I'd leave that alone too. As Wynton said, 14 grams is pretty much old school and will give you dishwater in your bigger basketl.
Tamp pressure: 14-15 kg is ideal, so I'd leave that alone.
Extraction time: Pardon my say so, but I think you are unnecessarily fussing about pre-infusion time and pressures. Just aim for an overall time from when you hit the brew button of 25-30 seconds.
Pressure: your 9 bar sounds ideal, so I'd leave that alone too.
Freshness: that too sounds well within the ballpark, 3-7 days from roasting. Perhaps you could try 4 days? Are they degassing through a one-way bag?
Shot volume: I assume you have measured 60 ml in your glass/cup, made a mark there and brewed to that level.
Whatever you do, change only one thing at a time, assess, and then go onto the next variable, otherwise you won't know which is working and which isn't.
Good luck.
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Originally posted by robusto View PostKaiser, before throwing out the baby with the bathwater, keep trying
There are many variables, so you have much to play with.
Temperature of 93°C--providing it is accurate and at the shower screen, -- is ideal. So I'd leave that alone.
Dosing: 19 grams of grinds, I'd leave that alone too. As Wynton said, 14 grams is pretty much old school and will give you dishwater in your bigger basketl.
Tamp pressure: 14-15 kg is ideal, so I'd leave that alone.
Extraction time: Pardon my say so, but I think you are unnecessarily fussing about pre-infusion time and pressures. Just aim for an overall time from when you hit the brew button of 25-30 seconds.
Pressure: your 9 bar sounds ideal, so I'd leave that alone too.
Freshness: that too sounds well within the ballpark, 3-7 days from roasting. Perhaps you could try 4 days? Are they degassing through a one-way bag?
Shot volume: I assume you have measured 60 ml in your glass/cup, made a mark there and brewed to that level.
Whatever you do, change only one thing at a time, assess, and then go onto the next variable, otherwise you won't know which is working and which isn't.
Good luck.
Hey,
Reason I clarified the pre infusion was that not all machines have this, so it's not really comparing apples to apples when you are doing a seven second preinfusion and other machines aren't- and yet saying times should be the same. Does that make sense? The shot glasses have 30ml markings which I've confirmed. I will try the suggestion of pulling ristretto like shots and see if I enjoy that taste more. Thanks for all the helpful advice so far
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Kaiser, is there anybody from whom you can borrow a different grinder? (don't know where you reside)
As Robusto says, it's a good idea to work on one variable at a time.
If I lived in one of the major cities I would be hooking up with other CS in my locality as the benefits from being able to swap tips and equipment are immense.
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I am not suggesting the Breville won't make a decent coffee. However if you are looking for fruitiness, caramel, chocolate, nutty, and all the other nuances and unique flavours a coffee has to offer and that are usually lost under milk, then the Breville is not going to cut it. End of story.Last edited by Dennis; 17 January 2013, 05:40 PM.
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... under moll???
Dennis, when you say 'the Breville', are you talking about the BDB/BES900 or the BSG/BCG800, or both?
I have both, and while I'm considering getting a better grinder at some stage in the future and I might even upgrade from the BDB some time after that, I can get chocolate, caramel, nutty and even occasionally fruity flavours depending on the blend and the roast, just not as consistently as I'd like. I'm using a VST basket and Pullman tamper, but I don't think they're essential to getting a good cup. It has taken me the better part of 13 months to get to this point and for the grinder to stop clumping badly. I make six to ten coffees a day, mostly milk but some espressos, and everyone in the household likes their coffee strong so I use a 22g VST basket, 15 secs of pre-infusion using the manual button, and 60+ml of coffee in about 30 secs from the end of pre-infusion or until it blondes, which can sometimes take 40 secs or more. There has been some recent discussion in the BES900 thread about longer pours, I get no sourness and usually no bitterness from these pours, and the espresso is rich and full-bodied. This may not meet Dennis' definition of good coffee, so I'm looking forward to trying a better grinder and I'd like to experience what something like an Alex Duetto can produce as well. A side by side comparison would be great!
Kaiser, I presume you've been reading the BES900 owners' thread in the mid-priced machine forum, especially if you've mentioned 11 secs to the start of the coffee starting to pour. Had you asked your question there, you would have reached a higher proportion of forum members who are familiar with the BDB, its pre-infusion capabilities, the expected shot clock times to start and complete extraction, and the appropriate weight of coffee to dose the Breville double basket, which is a lot more than 14 g!
As far as I can see from your opening post you seem to be doing everything about right. Are you running the grinder for a couple of secs before you fill the portafilter to clear stale grounds? Does the top of grinder spindle oscillate/orbit when running, perhaps indicating some misalignment in the shaft which can contribute to uneven particle sizes? What sort of sound does it make when it runs empty, ie, is there any indication that the burrs may be touching slightly at some point? If so, this might indicate that trying out a better grinder may be your next step, but first try a slightly finer grind and a slightly extended pour and tell us what you think.
Andrew
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Hi Andrew - 'moll = milk' lol. Stoopid iphone! Have fixed that.
I was referring to the grinder in particular but to some extent, thinking of the coffee machine as well. Glad to hear you are producing great shots. From memory, when I visited Breville they had the BDB900 partnered with a Robur or similar. I think it's even in some of their youtube videos. What more can I say?
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Thanks Dennis, that makes sense now.
Heh, a Robur is way further than I was intending to go, but you make a very good point. I'd say I get a reasonable proportion of good shots, but I'd like to get it to an excellent proportion. An M4D maybe.
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Thanks all. I know that a better grinder would be the ideal solution but I'd like to see what the ebst result is from the Breville before I write it off. I tried courser and finer grinds - coarse shot yielding 40ml in about 18 secs and the finer one yielding 20ml in 40 secs. I preferred the taste of the under extracted shot which had a bit more acidity while still retaining some body. The latter was undrinkable. I'll keep playing around. I'm eyeing off a Baritza / Mahlkoenig Vario as a replacement if I decide I can't get along with the Breville.
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