Originally posted by taco
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Is there something wrong with my tastebuds?
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I think you will also find that your preferred definition of "super-taster" is but one of many that Mr Google comes up with.
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Why do some people like have their bottoms paddled by buxom women dressed up in nazi uniforms? Who knows why... it just is what it is and... quite frankly... it really doesn't matter if YOU understand why I happen to enjoy bitterness... the only person who needs to understand the WHY of it is me.Originally posted by taco View PostI'll accept that you can probably taste bitter and other flavours better than I can, but I still won't understand why you think the taste of bitter is nice if you are that sensitive to it.
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Use Google and you will discover that the term "super-taster" has a specific meaning relating to the ability to taste PROP. It may not be the best name for it as research into human variation of taste appears to be in its infancy and it appears to have been the first testable difference that showed a wide natural variation. Perhaps there will be better terms to describe the different types of taste sensitivity as they are discovered in the future.Originally posted by Vinitasse View PostIn whose context are you citing? In my context a super-taster is a person with a far greater than average density of tastebuds and olfactory receptors throughout the palate. As a wine-maker, certified Sommelier and Certified Wine Educator my palate has been tested and even calibrated at numerous tasting and judging events... and... I still love grapefruit juice
And... FWIW... yes... I do readily detect 6-n-propylthiouracil (PROP) on those nasty little paper strips that are used. However, having said that, just because a person is hyper-aware of ALL the flavour elements... including bitterness... does not mean they can not be enjoyed. I love my beers full of IBUs as much as I like my grapefuit juice. I am attracted to bitterness... not repelled by it.
I'll accept that you can probably taste bitter and other flavours better than I can, but I still won't understand why you think the taste of bitter is nice if you are that sensitive to it.
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I started my obsession with fine wine as a young man about 40 years ago.
I have always considered that my 'palate' was about average and that training and education was what allows some people to achieve a high level of discrimination with wine. I felt my palate was at the peak of it's powers when I was drinking a lot of varied wine regularly and thinking about what I was drinking.
I believe that my perception of taste has changed markedly in my later years and I now find I am increasingly intolerant of acid in wine, particularly white wines. I noticed this a decade ago when I got into coffee in a serious way, consequently my favourite beans have low acidity.
Its about perception, and it's also about preference, and I think there are probably metabolic changes that happen as we age that are also involved.
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In whose context are you citing? In my context a super-taster is a person with a far greater than average density of tastebuds and olfactory receptors throughout the palate. As a wine-maker, certified Sommelier and Certified Wine Educator my palate has been tested and even calibrated at numerous tasting and judging events... and... I still love grapefruit juiceOriginally posted by taco View PostThere are objective tests that can demonstrate a "super-taster", which in context means someone with higher than normal bitter receptors.
Have you done a PROP test?
If grapefruit juice isn't overwhelmingly bitter to you, then you likely aren't a "super-taster" in this context.
I imagine that people who are rated highly at tasting have a higher than average number of all taste receptors rather than an excess of bitter receptors that would overwhelm other taste sensations.
A heightened sense of smell would also be beneficial as much of what we deem as "taste" is actually smell.
And... FWIW... yes... I do readily detect 6-n-propylthiouracil (PROP) on those nasty little paper strips that are used. However, having said that, just because a person is hyper-aware of ALL the flavour elements... including bitterness... does not mean they can not be enjoyed. I love my beers full of IBUs as much as I like my grapefuit juice. I am attracted to bitterness... not repelled by it.Last edited by Vinitasse; 30 January 2013, 05:47 PM.
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There are objective tests that can demonstrate a "super-taster", which in context means someone with higher than normal bitter receptors.Originally posted by Vinitasse View PostI am most definitely a "Super-taster" yet, oddly enough, love lemon and, especially, grapefruit juice. One of the most definitive tests for level of palate sensitivity is the almond aroma perception test. To most people the smell of almond is barely discernable, if at all. To a super-taster the smell of almonds is almost over-whelming... in a very nice way
Have you done a PROP test?
If grapefruit juice isn't overwhelmingly bitter to you, then you likely aren't a "super-taster" in this context.
I imagine that people who are rated highly at tasting have a higher than average number of all taste receptors rather than an excess of bitter receptors that would overwhelm other taste sensations.
A heightened sense of smell would also be beneficial as much of what we deem as "taste" is actually smell.
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Very true about different people's taste sensations.Originally posted by Javaphile View PostAlso let's not forget that not everybody has the same sensitivity to taste. People have varying densities of taste buds and as such there is a huge difference in what people can and can't taste.
Based on the density of taste buds scientists have come up with 3 different categories of tasters: Super-tasters, normal tasters, and non-tasters. The rough distribution of these in the populace is 25% are super-tasters, 50% are normal tasters, and 25% are non-tasters with more women (35%) being super-tasters than men (15%).
In general the stronger and more undrinkable one finds grapefruit and lemon juice to be the further they are towards the super-taster end of the spectrum.
Java "Puckering up and shuddering at the mere thought of drinking lemon or grapefruit juice" phile
I find lemon rind--particularly when it is thick-- almost sweet, and can eat lemons without puckering. Orange rind definitely sweet. But when peeling an orange for my wife, I must remove all traces of white because to her it is sour.
Most people including me, love cherries, but my daughter hates them. What person could hate the taste of a sweet cherry?
I love the texture and taste of prickly pear. No-one else I know does...
The old one man's meat is another's.....
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They are all over the place; under your tongue, insides of your cheeks, the roof of your mouth, soft palate, the epiglottis,Originally posted by chokkidog View PostAdults have between 2,000 and 4,000 taste buds with the sensory cells in each bud renewed weekly.
A huge range of difference.......therefore Java "that's a lot of sour" phile's 'non-tasters' and 'super-tasters'.
With a bit of looking around some sites are claiming up to 10,000 but this includes the ones not on your tongue.
A bit more reading tomorrow.
the oesophagus and even some salt sensitive ones on your lips!
And to answer Franco's question about ageing......
They eventually wear out, gradually disappearing from areas other than the tongue first, then the tongue
itself. Smoking and scalding liquids will accelerate the rate of demise.
With the loss of sensitivity can come problems with loss of appetite and good nutrition. Over compensation
of the loss of taste with excessive sugar or salt will also lead to health issues.
Above info paraphrased from several sources.
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As with wine and food, I suspect the contribution of the actual taste buds/tongue is minimal - limited to combinations of the 5 primary flavours - but super-tasters will sense sour and bitter more intensely. The real reason some of us get more "taste" out of wine and coffee etc. has more to do with having an excellent olfactory sense than the number of taste buds on our tongue.Originally posted by Vinitasse View PostI am most definitely a "Super-taster" yet, oddly enough, love lemon and, especially, grapefruit juice. One of the most definitive tests for level of palate sensitivity is the almond aroma perception test. To most people the smell of almond is barely discernable, if at all. To a super-taster the smell of almonds is almost over-whelming... in a very nice way
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Hi Jools
I'd agree with Chookidog - with the kit you have collected, your understanding of the process and your past successes, I can't see technique being the main cause. From a home roasting point of view, sour is generally under roasted (unless serious under extracted). I'd try and find a roast / roaster you like and stick with them. :-)
Shopping around for good browns can can as frustrating as hunting for a good coffee in general - except that if they're not right, you've to put up with many subsequent bad coffees afterwards!
So - stick with the sublimes ones… or start home roasting!
Matt
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Very interesting Chok, I predict a new thread with pictures of CSers tounges - competing for the highest count
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And if you want to find out what your true coffee tasting potential is.......
BBC - Science & Nature - Human Body and Mind - Test your tastebuds
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Adults have between 2,000 and 4,000 taste buds with the sensory cells in each bud renewed weekly.
A huge range of difference.......therefore Java "that's a lot of sour" phile's 'non-tasters' and 'super-tasters'.
With a bit of looking around some sites are claiming up to 10,000 but this includes the ones not on your tongue.
A bit more reading tomorrow.
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I am most definitely a "Super-taster" yet, oddly enough, love lemon and, especially, grapefruit juice. One of the most definitive tests for level of palate sensitivity is the almond aroma perception test. To most people the smell of almond is barely discernable, if at all. To a super-taster the smell of almonds is almost over-whelming... in a very nice wayOriginally posted by Javaphile View PostAlso let's not forget that not everybody has the same sensitivity to taste. People have varying densities of taste buds and as such there is a huge difference in what people can and can't taste.
Based on the density of taste buds scientists have come up with 3 different categories of tasters: Super-tasters, normal tasters, and non-tasters. The rough distribution of these in the populace is 25% are super-tasters, 50% are normal tasters, and 25% are non-tasters with more women (35%) being super-tasters than men (15%).
In general the stronger and more undrinkable one finds grapefruit and lemon juice to be the further they are towards the super-taster end of the spectrum.
Java "Puckering up and shuddering at the mere thought of drinking lemon or grapefruit juice" phile
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Also let's not forget that not everybody has the same sensitivity to taste. People have varying densities of taste buds and as such there is a huge difference in what people can and can't taste.
Based on the density of taste buds scientists have come up with 3 different categories of tasters: Super-tasters, normal tasters, and non-tasters. The rough distribution of these in the populace is 25% are super-tasters, 50% are normal tasters, and 25% are non-tasters with more women (35%) being super-tasters than men (15%).
In general the stronger and more undrinkable one finds grapefruit and lemon juice to be the further they are towards the super-taster end of the spectrum.
Java "Puckering up and shuddering at the mere thought of drinking lemon or grapefruit juice" phile
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