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Soggy wet puck that's hard to knock out?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 13bob View Post
    Ok, what weight should I be aiming for?
    Zero out the scales with the filter basket. Then dose as you normally would and then weigh what you have in the basket. Note this weight as a starting point.
    You want the tamped bed of coffee just below the shower screen, have a search for the 5 cent piece test. Basically you want the gap between coffee and shower screen to be thickness of the 5 cent piece. Once you have your ideal dose weight, it will generally only change within a couple of grams depending on the type of coffee its age and the grind.

    Anyway the point is, once you have eliminated the dose weight variable, you can confidently adjust your grind finer or coarser to get the pour you want - CONSISTENTLY.

    Obviously its not viable in a commercial situation, but as Dragunov said, in the home why not?

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    • #17
      At MICE, and at some shops down in Melbourne I have seen baristas weighing each dose before extraction. Coffeesnob/coffeegeek/home-barista techniques are infiltrating the commercial environment as people strive to create better (or just more consistent) espresso.

      I also believe in weighing shots, especially if you are only making 1-2 coffees a day. It's not too hard to incorporate this extra step into your routine and the information it conveys is very valuable, especially when you are trying to problem solve your coffee online.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by askthecoffeeguy View Post
        The golden mean as I understand it is 30mls from 30secs from a double baskets (I assume you're using a double / triple basket coz if not there's your problem right there!
        ..
        Wouldn't that make it closer to a ristretto (assuming a double basket)?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Steve82 View Post
          Zero out the scales with the filter basket. Then dose as you normally would and then weigh what you have in the basket. Note this weight as a starting point.
          You want the tamped bed of coffee just below the shower screen, have a search for the 5 cent piece test. Basically you want the gap between coffee and shower screen to be thickness of the 5 cent piece. Once you have your ideal dose weight, it will generally only change within a couple of grams depending on the type of coffee its age and the grind.

          Anyway the point is, once you have eliminated the dose weight variable, you can confidently adjust your grind finer or coarser to get the pour you want - CONSISTENTLY.

          Obviously its not viable in a commercial situation, but as Dragunov said, in the home why not?
          Thanks Steve, I will do this. What weight is ideal for a double basket of coffee?

          Comment


          • #20
            I have an opinion about weighing espresso doses but.....each to their own...... :-)
            There is no 'ideal weight' and if you want to go down that path (of weighing doses) then you have to find the dose weight that gives you your ideal shot.
            You will have to weigh each dose until you find the one that works.
            Then you use that weight for repeatability. Your particular dose weight will vary, according to your filter size, grind, tamp pressure, coffee roast and age, machine pump pressure.

            I don't weigh my ( espresso ) doses but rely on consistent technique and a timed dose off the grinder.
            I only weigh for pour over, plunger and cupping.

            Re-read Andy's post #4 above, it contains everything you need to do.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 13bob View Post
              Thanks Steve, I will do this. What weight is ideal for a double basket of coffee?
              So many variables, machine type, brand / type of double basket, the type of coffee and most importantly the type of extraction YOU are after, which you will only find with much experimentation, depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.....

              Somebody who has the same machine as you may be able to help give you a ballpark figure. It could be anywhere between 14 and 20g for a double basket.
              Try searching for threads on your machine and see what comes up.

              As I said, I would suggest following normal dosing routine, slightly overfill basket, level off and then weigh what you have and use that as a starting point for future reference.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by askthecoffeeguy View Post
                The golden mean as I understand it is 30mls from 30secs from a double baskets (I assume you're using a double / triple basket coz if not there's your problem right there!
                For a standard espresso 30ml in 30 seconds is what you get using a single shot basket. For a double shot basket the standard is 60ml in 30 seconds.


                Java "Sipping away" phile
                Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 13bob View Post
                  Ok, what weight should I be aiming for?
                  The same one every time; that's the important bit.

                  I dose mine at 17.5, generally, but different coffees, baskets and machines will work better/worse with different doses.

                  I find it easiest to weigh the beans before they go in the hopper (ie the grinder only has 17.5g of coffee in it at any one time). It's not ideal, but it's less faffing around than weighing grinds (possibly less consistent if a bean gets stuck, but I've not had any trouble).

                  I grind straight into a spare 300ml jug then shake it about to break up any clumps then dose - makes for a perfect distribution and fixed some big problems for me.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                    I have an opinion about weighing espresso doses but.....each to their own...... :-)
                    There is no 'ideal weight' and if you want to go down that path (of weighing doses) then you have to find the dose weight that gives you your ideal shot.
                    You will have to weigh each dose until you find the one that works.
                    Then you use that weight for repeatability. Your particular dose weight will vary, according to your filter size, grind, tamp pressure, coffee roast and age, machine pump pressure.

                    I don't weigh my ( espresso ) doses but rely on consistent technique and a timed dose off the grinder.
                    I only weigh for pour over, plunger and cupping.

                    Re-read Andy's post #4 above, it contains everything you need to do.
                    I agree with most things you say.

                    Timed grinders do 90% of the work for you but are far from consistent. A great dosing technique will get you closer 100% of the time. Weighing doses and resulting espresso is useful for diagnostic work and dialing-in in a commercial setting especially if you already know what your esoresso brew formula percentage is. I personally always brew between 55-60%. At work the ridgeless baskets can take up to 25+ grams but my target dose is always 21.0 grams +/- 0.3 g with a resulting double espresso weighing around 35 grams in 27-32 seconds. This is very close to 30 mL per single.

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                    • #25
                      Yeah, as I said, I rely on consistent technique first.
                      You're quite right about timers being inconsistent. My Robur-e varies by as much as 1.8 gms but mostly
                      by only 0.2-0.4 gms (over a spread of 20 or so doses, or 500gms of beans).
                      Consistent dose and tamp technique will pretty much eliminate this variation.
                      If I weigh what I brush off the basket when levelling, guess what...... the same variation appears, almost every time .
                      The timed dose gets me in the zone, without having to weigh my doses and interfere with my zen.
                      I'm definitely not bothered by a potential 1% or 2% variation in doses.
                      I'm just not that anal ;-)

                      Cheers.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                        .....I grind straight into a spare 300ml jug then shake it about to break up any clumps then dose - makes for a perfect distribution and fixed some big problems for me.
                        I have a doserless grinder that spits out pretty clumpy grinds, so this may be a really good way of getting a consistent dose. Thanks!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          My puck is usually firm but wet on top so I read this thread - Andy's baseline tips have made a huge difference. I've stopped weighing and put away the bathroom scales for tamping, stopped toothpick distributing and I get that 60 ml double in 25-30 seconds more easily, just ground a step courser. Probably a temperment thing. Once I understand the process more I might go back to weighing for fine tuning but it's working better for me right now.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Salgar View Post
                            My puck is usually firm but wet on top so I read this thread - Andy's baseline tips have made a huge difference. I've stopped weighing and put away the bathroom scales for tamping, stopped toothpick distributing and I get that 60 ml double in 25-30 seconds more easily, just ground a step courser. Probably a temperament thing. Once I understand the process more I might go back to weighing for fine tuning but it's working better for me right now.
                            That's excellent news.

                            I was really hoping that someone reading this thread would go back to basics and start making great coffee without the need for dose weights and counting beans. While I understand that being accurate to a fault might result in closer to scientific consistency it's important to understand that it can also lead to complete frustration... and great coffee CAN be had with a fairly basic routine.

                            With a basic routine you can jump on any espresso machine, make a grind adjustment to suit the output and be producing pretty damn fine coffee within a couple of shots.

                            Please then adjust to suit your time and taste.

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                            • #29
                              Good news indeed. FWIW when I make coffee I get soggy pucks all the time - do I care? Not really, because the coffee tastes great.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thanks for all the great responses.

                                I started weighing my doses to get an idea of where I was at, and then I went back to basics as per Andys suggestions and now I have only a mildly wet puck and a consistent 60mls in 30 secs after adjusting the grind appropriately and I am happy with the taste so far.

                                Thanks again for all the advice.

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