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Some coffee questions

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  • #16
    I am reminded of John Pirsig's 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.' We seem to be seeing the Romantic/Classic division of how to view the world in this thread. Nothing wrong with either, just different ways to view things.

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    • #17
      Greg, I have no doubt that in your field of expertise you are correct in what you have said .............

      But I think Journeyman, Dragunov and I ( & many others on C.S.) have something in common which you are not taking into consideration here.

      We are "techno-tinkers". We enjoy fixing things that are not working as they should, and then modifying them so that they work even better than the original if that is what we need.( or sometimes just because we can )
      Fixing electrical or mechanical problems usually involves understanding why there is a problem, and what is causing it, in order to fix it.

      Modifying any thing to work better needs a good grasp of why it is not working as well as you think it could, and why it is better when you replace "this" with "that", and tweak something else.
      This is why we don't just want to know how fix something. We have this need to know why it needed fixing, and exactly how and why our "fix" worked to correct it.

      With Journeyman this obviously carries over to the feeding and operation of the machines as well as the electro-mechanical processes that they perform.

      So I fully understand where he is coming from. I also like the "why do other drivers hit trees " and the "skidpan" analogies too - must go with the territory.

      As to the original question my vote is for over-extraction and/or overheating.

      Cheers, Deegee.

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      • #18
        ^^ Very well put. I appreciate Greg's (& others) view of it - let's face it, without such people I wouldn't have had a job for the past 25 years. (and that is NOT intended to be insulting in any way)

        The Romantics of Pirsig's story/Chautauqua often far surpass what the Classics can achieve by concentrating on the end product... but they go to Classics to get things fixed when they break.

        Pirsig tells of riding across the States with a mate, him on his Harley and his mate on a BMW. When they started up into the mountains, both bikes began to play up. Pirsig spends time checking and tinkering and eventually realises what is wrong and fixes it easily. The friend goes into a garage in a small town and spends good money getting someone (another classic ) to fix his bike. Once they came down out of the mountains, Pirsig could fix his bike again; the friend would need another mechanic.

        What was wrong? Simple matter of timing and tuning to account for higher altitude. (less atmospheric pressure)

        *grins* I was on a course (I can be anything I want if only I knew what it is) many years back. Most such courses begin by getting you to agree to divide humanity into 2 types of people and so are of limited use in real life. They can however highlight aspects of Self (that normally AREN'T the intended goal of the course) and so can be useful. In this one the dichotomy is people are 'Scanners' or 'Deep Divers' - scanners float across the top of many subjects, briefly dipping toes into each, while Deep Divers plunge into one or two subjects and learn them intimately.

        I turned out to be a Deep Scanner - instructor's choice of words. She nearly derailed the class trying to show how I had to be one or the other.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by deegee View Post
          As to the original question my vote is for over-extraction and/or overheating.

          Cheers, Deegee.
          Hi Deegee, Journeyman et al.

          I agree with most of the above posts, and all the culprits listed. All of those things do create bitterness, however my "hands down" vote for no 1: oxidation of beans left in the dosers whilst awaiting the next shot.

          Some very famous brands retain so much grounds in their dosers that they need at least two "clacks" to clear it, whilst other grinders never manage to do so without a top to tail clean.

          Ground coffee starts to go bitter in less than 15 minutes in a warmish grinder. A lot of cafes are also humid, so it happens even earlier.

          FWIW, that is why I only ever drag out my commercial gear if I am making more than 5 "on the trot". Less than that, the Mahlkoenig Vario (not the W) is just possibly the best single to 5 on the planet as it leaves almost nothing in the grinder mechanism and gives a really good even grind (actually far better than most other grinders). If I were to contemplate going back into the trade (shudder) I would buy a few of them and use one for each type of coffee, or perhaps their newer commercial grade one if it has similar grind retention. Oxidation was always my no 1 enemy on the job.

          To return to the original post - test it by running a bitter shot, then cleaning it thoroughly and try it again immediately.

          May your coffee be great on your worst day.

          TampIt
          Last edited by TampIt; 6 September 2013, 03:29 AM.

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