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  • Journeyman
    replied
    Originally posted by scottwright View Post

    Dredging up an old thread here. But when you run cleaner (descaler?) through the wand do you remove the calc filter from the water tank?
    Also dredging it up... (blame covid ) Yes I do, The filter goes into a cup of salt water - just a teaspoon of salt in wamr water, stir to dissolve and drop the filter in.

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  • scottwright
    replied
    Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
    Not sure about others, I just put the liquid cleaner in the water container (50ml in a litre or so) and turn on the steam - the water in the container under the wand came out murky for a few minutes so I figured something was working, then over time it sounded like blockages were being cleared and eventually I got 5 minutes of just pure steam sound and clear water in the container. When I ran the pure water through (twice) to make sure it was fully rinsed, it came through without the blockage noise and was pure steam for 10 minutes each time.

    Process was:

    1. run cleaner through steamer for 15 minutes (roughly)
    2. Run the cleaning cycle on the group head with the rubber puck in the pf.
    3. Run about a cup or so of cleaner left in the tank through the water arm.
    4. Rinse tank with pure water a couple of times then add in about 1.5L
    5. Run water through the steamer for 10 minutes
    6. Run the cleaning cycle with puck in again.
    7. Run a cup or so through water arm.
    Repeat 4 - 7
    Dredging up an old thread here. But when you run cleaner (descaler?) through the wand do you remove the calc filter from the water tank?

    Leave a comment:


  • Journeyman
    replied
    Similar Yelta - although I haven't turned on the steam while my cloth-covered hand is cleaning the outside. I use a microfibre cloth - will have to see whether the steam comes through - I think I have about 8 layers of it so it should work OK.

    I did some barista work in a local pub to get some experience - the wand was caked and I had to remove it to clean it. I left it soak overnight in water with some descaler liquid (from the local roaster where I got the Cino one) they had and in the AM the water was dirty brown - ever since then I've always immediately 'cleared the throat' after using.

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
    I always give the wand a shot of steam after I clean the outside to make sure nothing is stuck up in there - I doubt anyone actually takes the jug from the steam while it is running or they would be doing major cleanups every time they use it, so there is definitely opportunity for milk to enter the steam head. And as above, it is a hot metal part at that point so it's part of my routine to give the knob a twist after I'm done.
    My routine after steaming milk,

    Close the steam valve,
    Remove nozzle from milk/jug,
    Immediately, blow out steam wand, by turning the tap on full, into heavily folded damp dish cloth and wipe the exterior of the wand clean, any delay in doing this will see the milk bake to a dried crust within a couple of minutes.
    Leaving the wand in milk or dirty water after steaming will cause it to be drawn up into the wand, where of course it will dry, doing this as a habit will eventually see the wand block with gunk.

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  • MrJack
    replied
    Actually, I was thinking of insoluble corrosion byproducts as a result of low TDS. But you never know.

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  • Journeyman
    replied
    My impression was the clean was lifting stuff further back in the machine than the wand. I'm going to give it a few more goes with the cleaner and see how it improves. This morning it took maybe 5 seconds before steam came through, and I let it run a bit and got no strange hiccups, but yesterday it too maybe 2 or 3 seconds to produce.

    I always give the wand a shot of steam after I clean the outside to make sure nothing is stuck up in there - I doubt anyone actually takes the jug from the steam while it is running or they would be doing major cleanups every time they use it, so there is definitely opportunity for milk to enter the steam head. And as above, it is a hot metal part at that point so it's part of my routine to give the knob a twist after I'm done.

    When it was blocking, the pump starts straight off but it is very quiet - any noise around and you wouldn't notice it. It was doing that for maybe 20 seconds before I cleaned it, then it got louder and after maybe 4 pumps I'd get water dribble and shortly after, steam.

    I'm not too worried about scale build up (or wasn't until MrJack mentioned re-mineralising ) as there will never be tap water through the system, but I figure maybe I'm getting the older stuff causing issues. I'll have to see if I can find out what the mineraliser adds back into the RO water.

    Leave a comment:


  • okitoki
    replied
    I wonder if the scum skins that came out of my BES860 steam wand after the descale soak was from milk or other things?

    This is just a little bit of scums that came out. There were more of these from where it came from
    Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCoffeeSnobs1375282708.267421.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	150.6 KB
ID:	734651

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  • jbrewster
    replied
    Originally posted by simonko View Post
    Even milk surprises me because the wand is getting a low-power steam clean every time it is used.
    Problem is that any milk that draws back into the wand bakes onto the internal surface of the wand (which is still pretty hot after the steam is turned off) and if you don't do your purges and such you're liable to have a very manky wand after a while...

    Leave a comment:


  • burr
    replied
    I don't think that the steam arm alone is anything to worry about. It has quite a large diameter compared to most and I can't imagine it would get clogged within a domestic setting (very easy to remove with a wrench too). I think the issue here is scale blocking up the thermoblock which will not only impede water flow but also reduce the thermal conductance.

    The situation might be slightly different compared to the main thermoblock. Imagine the ion exchange resin in the water tank replacing *most* of the calcium with sodium. This sodium will pass through a brewhead thermo no problem, if anything its solubility will increase with temperature. Calcium solubility decreases however, as in its calcium carbonate form, CO2 degasses at high temps resulting in insoluble Ca. The steam thermo presumably evaporates water completely resulting in sodium and calcium build up? I think the only permanent fix is to have it properly serviced, unless you want to risk zapping yourself playing around with wires!

    Also, I would NOT recommend running anything other than descaler through the machine, period. Backflushing cleaners contain detergents which aren't designed to run through the water tank. The reason they contain descalers is to remove scale on the brew head, solenoid etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • simonko
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Was wondering about this myself, more likely to be milk.
    Even milk surprises me because the wand is getting a low-power steam clean every time it is used.

    Only if the boiler didn't have an anti-vac and/or the steam knob didn't seal perfectly can I imagine remnant milk sitting inside the tip being drawn up the wand as the machine cools.

    But I've heard service guys talk about how disgusting steam wands can get if the machine isn't serviced--not sure if they were referring to boiler machines or thermoblocks though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magic_Matt
    replied
    Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
    I'm using Cino Cleano... seems to do the job well, vis-a-vis the clean out yesterday where the steam kept getting better for 10 minutes or so. It's not specifically a descale option, it says 'coffee oils, milk deposits and scale removal. It's been through the steam wand 3 times now, (twice in the first month and once Sunday) and the steam is better now than when I got the machine.
    Thanks, I might give it a go. Not unhappy with the steam performance — in fact given I normally deal with about 100ml of milk if anything it's a bit too strong — but I do get the feeling it takes longer to get to full throttle than when new and can be a bit inconsistent.

    Originally posted by simonko View Post
    I can't see how scale would ever get in the steam arm. Does it actually happen?
    I reckon you're right, but I'm not so sure about the thermoblock and pump - which is more of an issue as it's less accessible and there's more to go wrong. From memory AM posted about this, but I don't have the search-fu to find the post, if it exists...

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by simonko View Post
    I can't see how scale would ever get in the steam arm. Does it actually happen?
    Was wondering about this myself, more likely to be milk.

    Leave a comment:


  • simonko
    replied
    Originally posted by mattbr View Post
    ... but from memory the instructions advise against running descaler through the steam system so I haven't regularly done this... I think someone speculated that this was because of the risk of pieces of dislodged scale blocking a valve or something.
    I can't see how scale would ever get in the steam arm. Does it actually happen?

    Leave a comment:


  • Journeyman
    replied
    Not sure about others, I just put the liquid cleaner in the water container (50ml in a litre or so) and turn on the steam - the water in the container under the wand came out murky for a few minutes so I figured something was working, then over time it sounded like blockages were being cleared and eventually I got 5 minutes of just pure steam sound and clear water in the container. When I ran the pure water through (twice) to make sure it was fully rinsed, it came through without the blockage noise and was pure steam for 10 minutes each time.

    Process was:

    1. run cleaner through steamer for 15 minutes (roughly)
    2. Run the cleaning cycle on the group head with the rubber puck in the pf.
    3. Run about a cup or so of cleaner left in the tank through the water arm.
    4. Rinse tank with pure water a couple of times then add in about 1.5L
    5. Run water through the steamer for 10 minutes
    6. Run the cleaning cycle with puck in again.
    7. Run a cup or so through water arm.
    Repeat 4 - 7

    Leave a comment:


  • burr
    replied
    Just wondering, how are you guys actually getting liquid through the em6910's steam arm? Wouldn't it dry and come out as steam, hence clearing scale and redepositing it somewhere else? I did read a post here once re: heat the machine up, turn off, disconect a wire to bypass the heating cycle and run the descaler through.

    Also don't take my word for it, but I doubt the most abundant metal in the earth's crust is particularly harmful. The chemical nature (oxidation state, solubility...) may play a role however, so try not to consume too much aluminium citrate!

    Leave a comment:

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