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  • Coffee tastes bitter

    I can't seem to get the bitter taste out of my shots. Also the pour is much quicker than 30s - I would fill two shot glasses in 30s.

    1. Nuova Simonelli Musica machine with Eureka grinder
    2. Machine is definitely warmed up (heater light off), I prime it by pouring some water through an empty portafilter until it stops sputtering
    3. I'm using fresh beans from a local coffee shop
    4. Have tried adjusting grind from coarse to fine
    5. Have tried tamping gently to firm

    With a finer grind and firmer tamp, the pour is slower (about 25s to fill an espresso shot glass) and the crema looks better but then the bitterness is at its worst. With a coarser grind and gentler tamp the pour is less than 20s, not much creme and the bitterness is somewhat less but still there.

    I have taken a video of a few shots and will try and figure out how to upload to youtube. Meanwhile, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    I've probably only poured 5 shots in my life that were what I would consider drinkable as straight espresso, without any sourness or bitterness, from maybe 100 I've sampled straight from the pour. I tended to have better luck with slightly coarser grind dosed higher and tamped firmer, but you need to check your distribution too. Beans were always roasted same week. You can often tell just by the way it's coming out how good it is. A nice tasting shot really will look like warm honey. You can even hear it, it makes a syrupy sound as it pours into the glass.

    I think from memory underextracted (fast pour) = sour, overextracted (too slow) = bitter. Coffee older than a week is generally not going to make a drinkable espresso without sugar and/or milk added.

    A naked PF might help you diagnose. Also keep very close eye on the colour change, and try tasting different "portions" of each shot.

    Comment


    • #3
      Some of my pours - various tamps & grinds - they were actually done in reverse order and I was making the grind finer each time (I think)

      Pour 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fmd6Rm-3fIo
      Pour 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prp4HdUHxc4
      Pour 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNJELcdyLRM
      Pour 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q7IkW5WYmw
      Pour 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nhQGBQBWNw

      Comment


      • #4
        Darkfalz, we normally drink lattes and caps, so the bitterness is not obvious. But today I set myself the challenge to adjust the shot to make it good enough for espresso. So far its been a dismal failure.

        My beans were bought 3 days ago from roasters - I'd say roasted 4-5 days ago and kept sealed. I bought a kilo and I've gone through about 250g so far today just pouring shots for a couple of hours. I have had one or two that tasted drinkable, but still pretty ordinary. The rest were abysmal. I had better shots from my $300 Saeco Via Venezia than this setup.

        I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but the odd thing is that the shots tend to taste better when the pour is very quick (15s) and then there is no creme. With a longer pour and better crema, the bitterness makes it almost undrinkable.


        Originally posted by Darkfalz View Post
        I've probably only poured 5 shots in my life that were what I would consider drinkable as straight espresso, without any sourness or bitterness, from maybe 100 I've sampled straight from the pour. I tended to have better luck with slightly coarser grind dosed higher and tamped firmer, but you need to check your distribution too. Beans were always roasted same week. You can often tell just by the way it's coming out how good it is. A nice tasting shot really will look like warm honey. You can even hear it, it makes a syrupy sound as it pours into the glass.

        I think from memory underextracted (fast pour) = sour, overextracted (too slow) = bitter. Coffee older than a week is generally not going to make a drinkable espresso without sugar and/or milk added.

        A naked PF might help you diagnose. Also keep very close eye on the colour change, and try tasting different "portions" of each shot.

        Comment


        • #5
          Toomanyhobbies,

          You talk about grind and tamp, but not your dosing level...which is at least equally as important (and what one would normally try to get to an approximately right level first). As you changed your grind in the 5 pours above, the dosing level in the basket will have changed, as finer grinds compress to a lesser volume. How did you determine your dosing level?
          Cheers

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Toomanyhobbies View Post
            Some of my pours - various tamps & grinds - they were actually done in reverse order and I was making the grind finer each time (I think
            All those shots look to be gushers to me. If these arise from progressively finer grinds, I would say you have distribution problems. Is your Eureka a doser or doserless grinder?
            Can you do another video showing your grind-dose-distribute-tamp technique?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Darkfalz View Post
              Coffee older than a week is generally not going to make a drinkable espresso without sugar and/or milk added.
              I think you will find many here will disagree. I usually don't open my bags until 10 days post roast and I've had excellent short blacks from coffee that is 3 weeks old.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes it's frustrating that I cannot perfectly replicate it. I suspect very small flaws or variations in distribution or pressure can greatly influenece the taste of the espresso shot. I think I've only ever pulled one shot (that I tasted straight) I would genuinely describe as "sweet" and a handful of others that had no obvious flaws. Could it be our palates too? I've never been to an espresso bar or barista course to sample what a champion barista considers a nice shot. Maybe a hint of sourness or bitterness is an intended part of the flavour profile. I am limited by the granularity of the grind too, as one notch on my grinder is a huge difference (I essentailly only have 2 usable espresso settings 15 and 16 out of a range of 25).

                I've got "fresh roasted" stuff that was a dud too, so roasters aren't infallible either. They will occasionally do a bad batch that will pour and taste bad regardless.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
                  I think you will find many here will disagree. I usually don't open my bags until 10 days post roast and I've had excellent short blacks from coffee that is 3 weeks old.
                  I'm talking about age from opening (after post-roast de-gassing period in a sealed bag).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
                    All those shots look to be gushers to me.
                    I agree.

                    Toomanyhobbies, try and get your pour to look like "mouse tails" not the rats tails that they currently are.

                    One of the easiest ways to do that (assuming your dose and tamp are the same) is to set your grind so fine that it justs drips... from there go a little more course until it pours a fine tail.

                    From the videos you will have to go a fair bit finer before you can get a drip, drip, drip over fine pour.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Look at the spent puck too. Is it soft? If that's the case, you are underdosing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There are some great "How-To" videos on one of our Site Sponsor websites here...
                        Espresso Machine How-To

                        Not the same machine perhaps but the principles still apply...

                        Mal.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is your machine clean? i don't know much about how to clean Nuova machines however on my Expobar i start getting this taste which is like its bitter which i now know as i need to do a clean out with back flush. Just something else to consider.

                          Cheers,

                          Chris

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Toomanyhobbies View Post
                            Darkfalz, we normally drink lattes and caps, so the bitterness is not obvious. But today I set myself the challenge to adjust the shot to make it good enough for espresso. So far its been a dismal failure.

                            My beans were bought 3 days ago from roasters - I'd say roasted 4-5 days ago and kept sealed. I bought a kilo and I've gone through about 250g so far today just pouring shots for a couple of hours. I have had one or two that tasted drinkable, but still pretty ordinary. The rest were abysmal. I had better shots from my $300 Saeco Via Venezia than this setup.

                            I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but the odd thing is that the shots tend to taste better when the pour is very quick (15s) and then there is no creme. With a longer pour and better crema, the bitterness makes it almost undrinkable.
                            Hi Toomanyhobbies

                            I am assuming you have not changed your technique, merely the roast?

                            As you are now producing gushers (from somewhat to major as the video numbers went up), either something new is wrong with your gear or, more likely, you have hit a dud roast.

                            FWIW, about a month ago I bought a medium Colombian roast from a local roaster. It should have had a warning "Abandon all hope ye who try to use me". Apart from the fact that it was roasted at far too low a temp for way too long (the inside of the beans were utterly dessicated), I really doubt that it was Colombian at all. Neither does the (non local) roaster I usually go to, as I gave him the beans to see what he thought of it (summary: very little). The only flavour it had was bitterness, and even using a 20g VST (I usually use a 7g on SO mediums) it still had nothing much in the cup. Truly diabolical. I suspect you have managed to obtain its twin brother.

                            I really urge you to do a top to tail maintenance of your gear and if nothing is wrong to try another roast from somewhere else. Although to be fair, we all have bad hair days, so perhaps it would be premature to write that roaster off until you have a chat perhaps?

                            Good luck w the troubleshooting.

                            TampIt

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                              ..try another roast from somewhere else.
                              Good points. We are assuming it is technique, when we don't know about the bean you are using. Try another bean from another roaster for comparison .

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