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Going insane with channeling, pls help!

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  • #31
    Yeah.. that's not the most graceful manner of removing the shower screen, but it can at least give the OP an idea. The lady's silliness of choosing a hot machine to do the demonstration wasn't exactly brilliant either
    I watched the video long ago, but did it much more gently myself with a spread knife when the time came to remove the shower screen (more leverage than the back of my teaspoon without the sharp, dirty edge of a screwdriver). Hopefully OP gets the idea and it helps him remove and inspect his shower screen without being as clumsy as the lady in the video cuz I couldn't find a better video in short notice :P

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    • #32
      Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
      But Yelta, those girls are the world's greatest experts on coffee machines!!
      You know, like, they're on You Tube....................!!

      ;-D :-D ;-D
      Sorry Chokkidog, my mistake.

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      • #33
        OK, an update...

        I am now using a Pullman Tamper with a matching 18g VST basket. I've probably pulled 20 shots since, (most for calibration) and not once was there any channeling at all!

        Today I gave my Rocky Rancilio Doserless a huge cleanout. Interestingly, the coffee coming out is clumping somewhat, but at 8 years+ or so old, that's not unreasonable. I'm probably due for a new grinder and really want a stepless one this time. Any suggestions, pls go ahead it would really help. I have my eye on a Eureka Mignon but that's it at the moment.

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        • #34
          Channelling has gone completely away for me with:

          1. Correct dose, most important. Over-dosing will destroy the top of your puck and lead to channelling almost every time.
          2. Well settled coffee (similar to a WST or something, but just using lots of light tapping and sweeping to fill in the gaps).
          3. A very light "nutating" tamp before the final tamp.

          This has lead to only very small variations in my shot, so much so I am more than happy to use the programmable volume in the machine.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by lucifuge View Post
            OK, an update...

            I am now using a Pullman Tamper with a matching 18g VST basket. I've probably pulled 20 shots since, (most for calibration) and not once was there any channeling at all!

            Today I gave my Rocky Rancilio Doserless a huge cleanout. Interestingly, the coffee coming out is clumping somewhat, but at 8 years+ or so old, that's not unreasonable. I'm probably due for a new grinder and really want a stepless one this time.
            Hi Lucifuge

            There are a few posts about Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets. My experience of one friends Rocky was strange at the time: far better coffee out of one of my EM480's when we used his VST / naked. Turns out (much later info) that VST's do not like the lower end market in flat burr grinders (too many fines, too inconsistent a range of particle sizes). The EM480 is a low end conical and is a lot better for the VSTs.

            If you go naked, your current setup may make it a move backwards. Later, it would be a good thing to experiment with.

            I now also have a Mahlkonig Vario ceramic flat burr grinder (aka Baratza in the US, Mahlkonig actually make them). For home use it beats the stepless at their own game: 10 "macro grind settings" of which 1 to 3 is espresso grinding range. A to W "micro grind setting" within each step. Result: dials in faster than any other grinder (esp. stepless) I have ever used. The other good news: Its quiet, small, doserless, accurate time setup with virtually zero grind retention. The bad news: the idiots did not put a on / off sensor switch where the portafilter is inserted & the p/f holder is a poor design (esp. for a naked); so you need two hands to use it - one for the p/f and one for the switch. As usual the best grinder is still out there somewhere. For espresso, the Vario is probably the best one for "serious CS home use". Just under $700.

            Hope this helps


            TampIt

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            • #36
              The EM04x0 do what they're meant to do, grind small amounts of coffee for home use. They're obviously not on par with larger commercial-use derivatives with dosing chambers and much larger burrs. But the machines are fairly reliable, predicatble and easy to maintain. I'll be keen on reviews of the EM0700 but I am pretty happy with the EM0480 now.

              Clumping is largely to do with moisture in the air more than anything, and maybe moisture in the beans.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                Hi Lucifuge

                There are a few posts about Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets. My experience of one friends Rocky was strange at the time: far better coffee out of one of my EM480's when we used his VST / naked. Turns out (much later info) that VST's do not like the lower end market in flat burr grinders (too many fines, too inconsistent a range of particle sizes).


                Hope this helps


                TampIt
                I love my Rancilio Rocky it is an excellent grinder that produces excellent coffee.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                  Hi Lucifuge

                  There are a few posts about Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets. My experience of one friends Rocky was strange at the time: far better coffee out of one of my EM480's when we used his VST / naked. Turns out (much later info) that VST's do not like the lower end market in flat burr grinders (too many fines, too inconsistent a range of particle sizes). The EM480 is a low end conical and is a lot better for the VSTs............
                  Ah yeah and playing devil's advocate, another interpretation of that could be that the vst is not fit for purpose if it wont work with well established espresso making gear.... use a rocky with regular commercial filters and you get a perfectly good cup of coffee (usual caveat that you have to know what you are doing, but that's the same with everything). So we could reverse the comment to say vst is not up to the job.....which is cheaper / easier to replace, a filter basket or a grinder? And in view of the thread as a whole....if best practice is used to make the coffee and the result is already really good, what does it actually mean if you spot a channel in your puk?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TOK View Post
                    Ah yeah and playing devil's advocate, another interpretation of that could be that the vst is not fit for purpose if it wont work with well established espresso making gear.... use a rocky with regular commercial filters and you get a perfectly good cup of coffee (usual caveat that you have to know what you are doing, but that's the same with everything). So we could reverse the comment to say vst is not up to the job.....which is cheaper / easier to replace, a filter basket or a grinder? And in view of the thread as a whole....if best practice is used to make the coffee and the result is already really good, what does it actually mean if you spot a channel in your puk?
                    I had a similar reaction when I read the remark about "Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets" as far as I'm concerned just another chink in the VST armour.

                    Most of us accept the fact that Rocky is an excellent little grinder, to claim its not compatible with VST baskets is laughable.

                    From memory we are being told that VST baskets work best with a naked portafilter, and that we must use a nutating tamp or at least tamp progressively adding coffee to the basket a little at a time, and now Rocky simply ain't up to the task of grinding coffee for these thoroughbreds.

                    Somehow the word finicky comes to mind.

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                    • #40
                      actually it has been a new years resolution of mine all this year to steer well clear of mutating tampers

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                        I had a similar reaction when I read the remark about "Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets" as far as I'm concerned just another chink in the VST armour.

                        Most of us accept the fact that Rocky is an excellent little grinder, to claim its not compatible with VST baskets is laughable.

                        From memory we are being told that VST baskets work best with a naked portafilter, and that we must use a nutating tamp or at least tamp progressively adding coffee to the basket a little at a time, and now Rocky simply ain't up to the task of grinding coffee for these thoroughbreds.

                        Somehow the word finicky comes to mind.
                        ....and in 19 days, Santa is gonna come down your chimney too...

                        Another one for your mumbo jumbo thread Yelta

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                        • #42
                          I've had no trouble with my VST from the get go.

                          There's an old saying about a poor workman blaming his tools.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                            I had a similar reaction when I read the remark about "Rocky's not really being up to the job for VST baskets" as far as I'm concerned just another chink in the VST armour.

                            Most of us accept the fact that Rocky is an excellent little grinder, to claim its not compatible with VST baskets is laughable.

                            From memory we are being told that VST baskets work best with a naked portafilter, and that we must use a nutating tamp or at least tamp progressively adding coffee to the basket a little at a time, and now Rocky simply ain't up to the task of grinding coffee for these thoroughbreds.

                            Somehow the word finicky comes to mind.
                            Hi Yelta

                            VST's are a very high flow basket compared to any others I have seen. Not just my opinion: VST themselves and many others all say the same thing, as do measurements. Nakeds are not as restrictive in the coffee path as spouts (self evident). Unsurprisingly, VST's work a lot better in nakeds. The also have the heaven / hell of not hiding anything. 2g of stale coffee in a VST 15g double: sink it. A standard basket will mask the stale stuff to a much higher extent. Excessive fines: will not work as a VST will run bitter immediately.

                            I agree the rocky is a excellent little grinder, my comment was that VST's do not like low end flat burr grinders (any make) because (mainly) of excessive fines. Simple. Easy to measure. Even a SJ has trouble with excessive fines when setting it up with a VST. VST's are at their best when the grind is just a little finer than the normal espresso range, whilst many good commercial grinders are not always at their best outside their designed espresso range (and that is fair enough in their case). Anything in need of a clean or with worn burrs: probably not good with a VST.

                            Now the question: Does that make them finicky? Or revealing because of their precision?

                            Any highly tuned thoroughbred / precision tool will only work at its best under the conditions it was designed for. ... and the last time you put diesel in your Ferrari?

                            TampIt

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                            • #44
                              I agree that VSTs allow both high and even flow. I don't agree that spouts add a significant level of flow restriction. If I did feel that spouts were flow restrictors would cause me to grind coarser when I use spouts (which I don't). As I've posted in another thread, I have grown to love my VSTs. TampIt, appreciate your posts on VST singles.
                              Last edited by kwantfm; 7 December 2013, 04:57 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                                VST's are a very high flow basket compared to any others I have seen. Not just my opinion: VST themselves and many others all say the same thing, as do measurements.
                                Who is measuring basket "flow" ?
                                What "measurements" are you referring to ?
                                What has the "basket flow rate" got to do with brew pressure ?
                                Water flows through all my baskets faster than the pump can deliver it... so the only restriction to flow ( and back pressure generator) must be the puck.
                                OR .... .are you suggesting there is some previously undefined, yet important, relationship between the basket hole size and the grind size ?

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