Barista = drinks + dishwashing + moping + vacuuming ??

[Rocky]

Seems to me that general usage determines that someone who works behind an espresso machine is a 'Barista'.
In reality, your customers decide whether you deserve the title.
What you do between the orders is irrelevant.

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

Abishek,

Can I just say that I reckon you've taken the plethora of (generally understandable) criticism and suggestions in this thread very graciously and in good faith. There are plenty in the past who've responded with complete childishness. I think you'll do well if you stick at it.
Cheers
BOSW

[TC]

I think there is a really interesting sub-plot here...

Back in the days where I delivered some courses for Angliss Coffee Academy, Jill Adams developed a model on how Prepare and Serve Espresso could be delivered. The course included ABC Espresso, Advanced Espresso, practise sessions, industry training and rigorous assessment which happened over the course of a few months. At best, the course produced a barista in training with a little real world experience. Faced with 5, letalone 50 coffee orders, many dissolved- but some real talent was identified. These days, I see Prepare and Serve being offered at a local not far from me- 2 hours and $60. It no doubt delivers people holding a sheet of paper.

One participant at the Academy was Toshi (Russell) Ishiwata who competed in a Latte Art comp just 3 weeks post Advanced espresso and is now head roaster for Market Lane. He arrived at Angliss having never pulled a shot, but with a love of coffee and real passion coupled with motivation to learn. I admire Toshi's skills. He is a true barista and has done the hard yards too. On the other hand, I saw some long term button pushers who were wasting their time. The button pushers are no doubt still pushing buttons.

Like any other art/science, some can and do and others never will- for whatever reasons....Regardless, no course nor a few hours in a cafe will ever produce a single barista. It is so much more. Good luck Abhi- It's all up to you!

[Abhishek]

There is no way I would call myself a barista, although I have been told numerous times I can pull a good shot, even by industry insiders. Even at my youthful best I always found it hard to pump them out and maintain quality, although I guess I picked up a few short cuts to help that process along. As a home coffee maker given the time, yes, my coffee is good+.

Why I am not a barista: see Talk coffee's hundreds of thousands of shots post. That is a barista, IMO the rest are just wannabees.

Just my 2 cents worth.

TampIt (BTW, IT professional, for better or worse)

Thanks TampIt. What I understand from yours, scoota_gal's and a couple of other replies is that "barista" is an earned title (like master roaster); not a role or a position. And since a few agree, I don't wish to question it further.

There is a similar debate in the art community where the established artists don't like to call newbies (3 year art school graduates) "artists" since they haven't made hundreds of paintings and sold them in art galleries.

That debate never ended, and is still going on from the last few decades.

And I'd love the title - Burgeoning Barista

[scoota_gal]

Pretty harsh Scoota_gal.

Wow...

[scoota_gal]

I think you've misunderstood my previous message. I meant I'm off to find a weekend job where I can gain more experience. Of course I haven't gained enough experience in 6 months and my part time job.

And I don't feel ashamed when I call myself a barista. I'm an inexperienced barista - yes! I'm new - yes! But ashamed - no. I take pride in what ever small bit I know about this field and have thirst to learn more.

Also comparison between different professions are not fair in terms of people skills or talent or experience. It's just like sales people saying lawyers don't know how to sell. Well lawyers don't need to.

I'm just a newbie seeking advice. And I'm sure there are hundreds of people in CS who are, or were in different fields and have changed to coffee industry.

If I have misunderstood you it is because of how your message has come across to me.

Nice that you take pride in your new found skill...it will set you apart from those who just stand behind a machine and make coffee and those who aim to be worthy of the title of barista. Perhaps we can call you a "Burgeoning Barista"!

No, I don't agree with your comment about comparing different professions. As I wasn't comparing anything there. I was trying to show you how we all have preconceived ideas about various industries. That one above is mine! Meanwhile, IT is different to Hospitality and in your original post it appeared you were not making any allowances for that. Because if you honestly expect to go into a small hospitality business and think that all you're going to do is one job, then you have well under estimated hospitality and have taken all your preconceived ideas bred in IT into that game. Not always going to work I'm afraid. Hence your first post. Nor am I bagging you for changing your career or developing a new skill set. Good on you for asking the question as to what is considered normal in this industry. To me, it is normal to do lots of things that aren't just making coffee.

And I reiterate...enjoy it! (and I'm not saying Enjoy IT...haha!)

[TampIt]

Hi Abhishek

I started using an espresso machine in 1970. First I had to get it to work properly, which no one else had succeeded in doing. It got me hired. Then I had to get used to the madness of university "peak hours". After every 20+ minutes it slacked off and I spent the next 20+ minutes cleaning everything out and getting ready for the next influx of stressed out decaffinated addicts demanding their fix. It paid for me to go through uni, even though I was only part time at the cafe. I kept doing part time coffee stuff for most of the next few years until I received formal training (without a certificate, if one existed in WA back then) in 1979. Since then I have kept my hand in, mainly by being asked by friends from that era to sort their gear out when it seems intractable. I have never worked full time at the trade for more than a couple of weeks at a time (called semester breaks).

There is no way I would call myself a barista, although I have been told numerous times I can pull a good shot, even by industry insiders. Even at my youthful best I always found it hard to pump them out and maintain quality, although I guess I picked up a few short cuts to help that process along. As a home coffee maker given the time, yes, my coffee is good+.

Why I am not a barista: see Talk coffee's hundreds of thousands of shots post. That is a barista, IMO the rest are just wannabees.

Just my 2 cents worth.

TampIt (BTW, IT professional, for better or worse)

[Abhishek]

Actually I'm glad that you explained it this way

[Dragunov21]

Given that (as far as I'm aware) the only "official" training scheme is Certificate something in make and serve espresso coffee, which means sod-all, I think that snobbery over casual use of the label of "barista" might be a sign of the industry taking itself too seriously.

When there exists a "legit" RTO offering a nationally-recognised long-term training/apprenticeship course, then perhaps it might be time to revisit the issue.

Abhishek's not saying he's hot sh-t, nor that he'll become a master in six months, just that he's looking for a training experience that provides sufficient exposure and practice to progress. That's my perspective, anyway. Abhishek, apologies if I've spoken for you out of turn.

[chokkidog]

The general perception probably is that if you're behind a coffee machine, you can call yourself a barista.

Shame, that, 'cos if you call yourself a barista, the general perception is that you know what you are doing.

Maybe as a logical extension of the industry, in time, it will be a professional title.

[MrJack]

Is 'Barista' a position/role or a protected professional title with training/experience requirements? I'd have thought it was the former, in which case the argument of experience (and skill level) would seem somewhat irrelevant to who is or should be entitled to use the title.

[fatboy_1999]

To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.

Now Scoots... we're not ALL devoid of people skills.
In fact, I know one guy who is an IT professional who took on an online coffee business on the side a few years back, and he has some pretty fine people skills.
Also, the site seems to be doing OK :-)

[Yelta]

What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista. You will learn a lot from them too so seriously, I recommend meeting them and chatting with them. The really good ones are usually more than happy to talk!

The nature of hospitality is not at all like the nature of the IT industry. It is not as black and white, I am afraid.

In hospitality, you will find that you be required to do more than just one specific job. And if that is the case, then be thankful as it will develop skills and interests that you didn't dream of before.

To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.

Of course, you could try to prove me wrong with that comment, Abhishek but it would be like me trying to convince you that you are not a barista yet, I feel...

Keep at it though. Persistence and determination will get you there. And as Chris said...enjoy it!

Pretty harsh Scoota_gal.

[Abhishek]

What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista.

I think you've misunderstood my previous message. I meant I'm off to find a weekend job where I can gain more experience. Of course I haven't gained enough experience in 6 months and my part time job.

And I don't feel ashamed when I call myself a barista. I'm an inexperienced barista - yes! I'm new - yes! But ashamed - no. I take pride in what ever small bit I know about this field and have thirst to learn more.

Also comparison between different professions are not fair in terms of people skills or talent or experience. It's just like sales people saying lawyers don't know how to sell. Well lawyers don't need to.

I'm just a newbie seeking advice. And I'm sure there are hundreds of people in CS who are, or were in different fields and have changed to coffee industry.

[scoota_gal]

...be an experienced barista

What...on only 6 months and part time at that?

Not in my cafe you wouldn't be, I'm sorry. When you look at the top of our industry in regards to people who are Baristas, you are no where near that yet with that experience. Go and have a look at the men and women who are setting the standard for making coffee and you might just be ashamed to call yourself a barista. You will learn a lot from them too so seriously, I recommend meeting them and chatting with them. The really good ones are usually more than happy to talk!

The nature of hospitality is not at all like the nature of the IT industry. It is not as black and white, I am afraid.

In hospitality, you will find that you be required to do more than just one specific job. And if that is the case, then be thankful as it will develop skills and interests that you didn't dream of before.

To me, it seems that people in IT don't have to have any decent people skills what so ever.

Of course, you could try to prove me wrong with that comment, Abhishek but it would be like me trying to convince you that you are not a barista yet, I feel...

Keep at it though. Persistence and determination will get you there. And as Chris said...enjoy it!