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  • #16
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    We do a little decaf (to order).

    My opinion is that coffee companies should refuse to supply cafes with pre-ground rubbish which passes for decaf and should actually be labelled as compost.

    Running a grinder for decaf is not an option, it's a given and in my opinion, this should happen before any origin offer, not after. If cafes are not prepared to do it, they can purchase a convenience store, use a superauto and sell $1 coffee instead.
    Absolutely... freshly ground from a dedicated grinder is the only way to go and as such, quality sourced and well roasted decaf is something that any decent cafe/restaurant should be proud of serving to those who want it.

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    • #17
      I don't know about the special location that you describe (and I won't ask on a forum) but once your business opens please feel free to invite me and if the location is reasonably reachable from my location (Melbourne, Australia) then I'd happily drop in to sample your wares.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ax72 View Post
        I don't know about the special location that you describe (and I won't ask on a forum) but once your business opens please feel free to invite me and if the location is reasonably reachable from my location (Melbourne, Australia) then I'd happily drop in to sample your wares.
        Sure it's reasonably reachable.....if you consider the opposite side of the country reasonably reachable.

        Originally posted by pwillems View Post
        I'm in south west WA.

        Java "Reasonably reachable" phile
        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Journeyman View Post
          nvest and stick up a "Fresh Ground Decaf"
          Part of the issue with that is that most decaf drinkers may not necessarily know why the majority(?) of decaf sucks.

          I do wonder whether advertising a "low-caffeine blend" (in addition to listing decaf on the menu, and using the decaf beans for both) might be more attractive, as people may look at it and think "Hey, decaf is balls but maybe this low-caffeine blend will give me the best of both worlds". Or is that dishonest?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
            Part of the issue with that is that most decaf drinkers may not necessarily know why the majority(?) of decaf sucks.

            I do wonder whether advertising a "low-caffeine blend" (in addition to listing decaf on the menu, and using the decaf beans for both) might be more attractive, as people may look at it and think "Hey, decaf is balls but maybe this low-caffeine blend will give me the best of both worlds". Or is that dishonest?
            That would be like serving 2% as skim milk.

            Why not just be honest and say you have a great decaf, freshly ground that they will struggle to pick as a decaf?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
              Why not just be honest and say you have a great decaf, freshly ground that they will struggle to pick as a decaf?
              Because there is a stigma attached to decaf that I would imagine might be difficult to break due to the fact (guess) that most people wouldn't know why decaf usually tastes bad (I know I'm repeating myself but you did ask). I know all the basic theory and still never made the connection. I think it would be hard to condense the information you're trying to communicate into something digestible for people walking in glancing at a chalkboard or what have you.

              Isn't skim milk lower-fat than 2%; fat-free even? In that case, I would view the practice as unethical because people think they're getting fat-free milk and would in fact be consuming something they specifically didn't want, but I wouldn't find it dishonest to advertise "low fat milk" and use skim/0%.

              I don't think anyone's going to order "low-caffeine" and be disappointed that it doesn't have enough caffeine in it. If you advertised it as half-caf then that would be a different matter.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Dragunov21 View Post
                Part of the issue with that is that most decaf drinkers may not necessarily know why the majority(?) of decaf sucks.

                I do wonder whether advertising a "low-caffeine blend" (in addition to listing decaf on the menu, and using the decaf beans for both) might be more attractive, as people may look at it and think "Hey, decaf is balls but maybe this low-caffeine blend will give me the best of both worlds". Or is that dishonest?
                Sounds reasonable seeing even decaf has minor amounts of caffeine AFAIK. I don't see anything wrong with rewording to overcome prejudices, particularly those based on poor practices in the past. (and provided you're not simply repeating said poor practice and conning the buyer )

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                • #23
                  That's what I'm thinking; offer them a new desirable product rather than trying to convince them that the product they dislike isn't as poor as it used to be.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by pwillems View Post
                    Hi All. I am setting up a coffee shop and am selecting my equipment. I expect to go through 2 kg to 3 kg / day. I'm no expert barista (yet), so need a bit of help.


                    My choice for the espresso machine is the Expobar Ruggero mainly because it gets good reviews, is fairly well priced and looks bloody fantastic. Are there other machines in thes same kind of price range that I should consider ($5k to $10k)? Next, based on 2 kg to 3 kg / day, should I get the 2 GR or 3 GR? Finally, there are 2 versions of the Ruggero, heat-exchanger or multi-boiler. The multi-boiler is a grand or two more. Is it worth the extra expense? I want to offer my customers excellent espresso, but will only pay the extra money if it will make a significant enough difference that my customers will notice it.


                    Next, for the grinder. I'm liking the Mazzer Kony Automatic. Based on 2 kg to 3 kg / day would you expect that to be the grinder I need or should I look at the Robur?


                    Cheers.
                    Hi pwillems

                    Further to chokkidog's excellent post, my favourite W Pth cafe did 400 coffees in a 3 hours with a 3 group Linea. There is a reason they are most Cafe's pet workhorse. I seriously doubt that any other cheaper machine could get close to that throughput. One barista, two waiting staff all flat out (they do food as well).

                    The decaf question: A decent decaf usually gets about 10 to 15% of the trade (based on a few cafes still owned by friends "in the trade"). A poor decaf will get zero repeats and is lucky to get 1% over the long haul. If you have not chosen your coffee yet, I would try every decaf you can lay your hands on to obtain the higher figure. Based on grind retention and lack of usage, I would suggest you look at the Mahlkonig Vario gen2 (Swiss made domestic grinder) for decaf. Stale decaf is a simple sales killer, especially for larger groups.

                    Other than that, PM me if you are coming to Perth and perhaps I can give you a few contacts to "pick brains".

                    TampIt

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TampIt View Post
                      Hi pwillems,
                      Further to chokkidog's excellent post, my favourite W Pth cafe did 400 coffees in a 3 hours with a 3 group Linea. There is a reason they are most Cafe's pet workhorse. I seriously doubt that any other cheaper machine could get close to that throughput........TampIt
                      ".....did 400 coffees in a 3 hours with a 3 group Linea. There is a reason they are most Cafe's pet workhorse. I seriously doubt that any other cheaper machine could get close to that throughput....."

                      Cobblers. This stuff isn't magic and LM doesnt have a magic wand that no one else has.

                      For a start, almost every other brand model espresso machine *is cheaper*, because LM's chosen market strategy has been from way back to place itself "up there".

                      That doesn't mean their machines can handle the pace while the others cant. Their pricing is a market positioning statement and nothing to do with whether they can make more coffees in a shorter time.

                      Secondly. A particular model of anyone's pet equipment brand doesn't make the coffee, the operators ("baristas") do.

                      An operator that can make a 3 group Linea sing, can make any other brand model espresso machine sing as well as long as it is a model that can handle that kind of pace (full size models from many other quality manufacturers for a start, not "compact" models), and the operators are familiar with the model they are thrown into the deep end with.

                      Thirdly. Plenty of cafes doing similar numbers on other brand / model machines.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Must have been one real gun barista to turn out 400 in 3 hours, regardless of how many groups s/he had.

                        I call bollocks unless there was a doser full of coffee, 1L jugs and questionable quality/consistency.

                        Best bet as per previous posts. Talk with your coffee supplier and take their advice. They will have experience as to what's appropriate for your requirements. No value in buying a Ferrari if the only service agents around only know old Holdens...
                        Last edited by TC; 18 March 2014, 09:53 PM. Reason: added info

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                        • #27
                          1.35 seconds per coffee...

                          I'd love to see that

                          Mal.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                            1.35 seconds per coffee...

                            I'd love to see that

                            Mal.
                            Actually... it would have been 27 seconds per coffee.

                            3 hours of 60 mins = 180 mins = 10,800 seconds / 400 coffees = 27 seconds each

                            Still hard to believe though!

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                            • #29
                              Sheesh.......... all this bashing!!

                              Don't want to defend anybody .......... but.......

                              if the shots were all splits then it's only 200 pours, not 400, giving 54 seconds for each pour.

                              The volume of water might be a more critical factor as 400 x 30 ml or 200 x 60 ml = 12 litres, or 4 litres / hour.

                              So could a Linea, with a 5 litre brew boiler and 6100 watt element keep on top of that sort of output?

                              I dunno............ leave that up to youse experts.

                              In the following video a coffee is started every 17.6 seconds (average), with a total of 17 coffees in 5 minutes.
                              And they aren't split shots.........

                              Granted, a second machine is on milk duties but that's probably more about workflow.

                              Australian Cafes - Putting Slayer to the Test on Vimeo

                              That sort of output might be less achievable on a lot of single boilers.

                              I dunno............leave that up to youse experts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by chokkidog View Post

                                Granted, a second machine is on milk duties but that's probably more about workflow.
                                I am no expert, but spending $20k+ on a machine just to steam milk makes no business sense.

                                Stoking one's ego .....yes. Business sense....No.

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