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Why do my second brews fail?

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  • #16
    Because after 10 mins your "fresh" retained grinds are now stale...

    You are sinking the second shot anyway, (so you are already "wasting" the coffee) so why not save the electricity

    In my K3P I purge the grinder until empty, fill the basket with beans, pour them into the hopper, grind into the PF and then purge afterwards. Minimal waste, fresh grinds.

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    • #17
      Good points both of you - thanks.

      I did once upon a time intend to get the single-shot hopper for Compaks from Orphan Espresso but I lost interest when they seemed to have stopped making them.

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      • #18
        And now, just checking, they have them for sale again. So I could fill the short hopper with just my 18g at a time and purge in between.

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        • #19
          You've spent a substantial amount on your equipment. If the suggestions to rectify 'user' related variables don't work I would suggest you spend a little bit more and have a competent tech evaluate your problem. If they have access to a scace device to accurately assess pressure and temperature at the group then all the better.

          Sean

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          • #20
            Just from your pressure readings, I'm not sure how accurate your indicator is but it seems a tad low. This would mean the 1st Shot gets superheated higher pressure water and the 2nd not so much which could cause that slow flow. Might be worth a scace test if the grind retention doesn't make a difference. It might be a case of a small adjustment on the opv. I just had the opposite problem with my machine (a Hx e61). If you're in the melbourne area I might be able to have a look for you? Pm if interested

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            • #21
              I paid attention to the gauge this morning. No change while brewing. It fluctuates minorly, from 1.0 bar when superheated down to 0.9 bar after purging a bit and while brewing. My earlier post was a guess and obviously wrong.

              One thing that I noticed that points to a wet basket being the problem - for a long while I haven't had issues but I would brew one cup in the bottomless basket, then switch to a new handle/basket with double spout and brew a split shot right afterwards (in the ~2min range) and have no problem. Because it was a new basket it wasn't wet.

              But lately circumstances have meant two doubles in the same, wet basket right after one another because the milk drinker was still asleep and I was just pouring doubles for me in the bottomless basket so the problem reoccurred.

              Today I did my double, then the split milk shot, then my second double a bit later and no problems.

              Anyway, next time I get up early and do just my shots in a row I'll dry and see how it goes.

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              • #22
                It's a boiler pressure gauge. Don't worry about it, it will tell you absolutely nothing about your shot.

                The problem is stale coffee, probably combined with super-heated HX water.

                Stale coffee:

                Stale coffee flows faster than fresh. You're not p\urging your grinder before the first shot, meaning you have stale grinds in your dose, making that shot flow faster. You then grind straight away for shot 2, meaning you have all fresh grinds making your shot flow slower.

                When you wait 10 mins you have stale coffee again = faster flow.

                Before you make your first shot tomorrow morning, purge your grinder for 5 seconds. Stick some kind of container under the grinder chute, activate for 5 seconds or about 7ish grams, throw away. Grind again for your shot, then pull the shot and tell us how it flows.

                Super-heated water:

                After idle for about 10 minutes, does your group head produce some spluttering when you activate the pump? On a Wega mini nova that I doubt has been calibrated, I would imagine yes.

                Try it and see. First thing in the morning after it has warmed for 30 minutes, activate the pump without the handle in the machine. If water splutters for a few seconds and then flows normally, then you need to flush before pulling a shot. Flush until the water stops spluttering, then lock in and activate pump again straight away.

                Again, boiler water on first shot or shot after 10 mins. If you pull a shot straight after the first one, you will not super-heated water hitting your coffee, again making it flow slower.

                Check these two things and let us know.

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                • #23
                  Yeah, I flush to get rid of the spluttering. And even then once the flow starts you can see the water is superheated (it's kind of full of bubbles and hissing as it comes out) so I keep going for a few more seconds until it flows clear and the hissing stops. I do this after the 10 minutes, yes. If it's not hissing and running clear, then I'll stop straight away.

                  I'm going to remedy the stale thing. I will do the mod to get rid of the Compak stopper flap and invest in a mini-hopper if/when Orphan Espresso returns my shipping quote email and purge etc. In the meantime I'll try purging the initial grounds and see what happens. It will be interesting from a taste perspective too.

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                  • #24
                    Several days of experimenting later and it was definitely the wet basket. All good now. I have been purging grinds too, but just to isolate variables I did a couple of days without purging and just making sure the basket is dry and yep, that fixes it. Thanks everyone for the advice and help.

                    I still don't fully understand the symptoms, seeing as they implied blockage or lack of pressure but whatever, at least it's fixed.

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                    • #25
                      Good to hear mate!

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                      • #26
                        Glad to hear it was something simple!

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