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  • Matt Perger's Pergtamp

    commercial link removed per site posting policy

    In the full knowledge that this might give rise to some less than civil discussion, I still think this is worth taking a look at. Without addressing any of the claims made about compression of grinds and extraction etc etc:

    - It's a tamper, designed in consultation with Pullman Tampers
    - It reads as though it might be a slightly tighter fit than Pullman Tampers? (but then so is my Pullman tamper...)
    - It's a similar price
    - You can order a base to screw onto a Nexus, which is cool
    - The side of the tamper base is tapered upwards, allowing nutation (if that's your thing) while using a tight-fitting base. I guess that makes it non-self-centering, so I suppose which is preferable is very subjective.

    If anyone ends up buying one, I'd be interested to hear what they think of it.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 21 June 2014, 08:56 AM. Reason: Commercial link(s) removed

  • #2
    I'm going to buy... there's been an incredible amount of opprobrium about this on other fora, but I happen to believe (perhaps mistakenly) that Perger does his homework and has credibility.

    Comment


    • #3
      You have to have a bit of a chuckle.

      Now we are told to get the best out of our finicky and very expensive VST baskets we also need an even more expensive and finicky tamper.

      Love these quotes

      • "Never place the Pergtamp on a hard surface, drop it on the floor or hit the edge against hard objects. This will eventually bend the edge, changing the diameter and resulting in a tight fit, jamming, or uneven tamping"
      • "Always pull the Pergtamp out of the basket slowly. Although the tapered sides increase airflow, there is still a vacuum effect if removed quickly. Watch out for any cracks appearing in the surface of the coffee grinds; this indicates that you are removing the tamper too quickly, and air is being forced up through the grinds instead of around the edges of the tamper"
      • "This tamper will not fit in or work well with any other brand of basket. You shouldn’t even be using another basket because they’re all terrible. Without exception"
      Last edited by Yelta; 21 June 2014, 03:09 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
        there's been an incredible amount of opprobrium about this on other fora, but I happen to believe (perhaps mistakenly) that Perger does his homework and has credibility.
        Often times ignorance leads to insecurity, and insecurity causes people to rabidly criticize that which they know little about.

        I agree with you, Matt is no fool or charlatan. If other folks can replicate the kind of results that he claims, it will be a very significant development.

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        • #5
          looks like it'd be a right royal pain to machine, though - I can't quite think of how to machine it.

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          • #6
            Great to see some true innovation here. It's funny how quickly the sideline doubters feel the need to shoot it down. I'd love to try one.

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            • #7
              Yes all very interesting again....but looking at getting 18g VST and this tamper plus shipping its going to be over $200.

              Will I taste $200 difference in my espresso? I doubt it.....considering that I find it very hard to get shots anywhere even close to what my little PID caravel lever can make.

              Maybe I should get a 2 group Strada to go with the tamper and baskets? oh but then I would have to have a EK43 as well otherwise i would be wasting my time.

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              • #8
                Crikey! looks like I hit the jackpot, because I tend to look at things realistically rather than through rose coloured glasses, I've been branded ignorant, insecure, rabid and a sideline doubter.

                Steve 82 has it pretty well nailed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
                  I'm going to buy... there's been an incredible amount of opprobrium about this on other fora, but I happen to believe (perhaps mistakenly) that Perger does his homework and has credibility.
                  Originally posted by ASchecter View Post
                  Often times ignorance leads to insecurity, and insecurity causes people to rabidly criticize that which they know little about.

                  I agree with you, Matt is no fool or charlatan. If other folks can replicate the kind of results that he claims, it will be a very significant development.
                  While I have no doubt that this is the case, I was a bit wary after the following claim:

                  That is, the size of the area that’s actually compressing the coffee grounds. At first this seems quite simple, but almost all tamper manufacturers include a curved edge or ‘fillet’ on the bottom of their tampers. This feature reduces their effective tamping area by a startling amount.

                  He concludes that

                  58.35mm Tamper, 1mm edge radius in a VST basket = 2.12cm^2 of untamped grinds
                  But this simply isn't the case; they aren't untamped at all; the radiused edge only results in a marginal decrease in initial force for the area under the radiused edge (because it's 0-1mm higher so doesn't all start compressing the puck until you've tamped 1mm deep. This seems negligible to me, especially since I imagine that the grounds would redistribute during the tamp so there's a fair chance the grounds under the radiused edge would end up the same density as those under the flat base, in my mind.

                  The way he talks the radiused edge doesn't contact the coffee or compress it at all and when he's using that claim to justify the effectiveness of it, that worries me. It also seems awfully hyperbolic to claim that any basket other than a VST is (quoted verbatim) "terrible, without exception". That basically implies that espresso has been completely shit until three years ago.

                  Of course, this is assuming I'm not misreading what he's written (please tell me if that's the case).

                  I wouldn't buy one to replace my standard Pullman, but I just might if I didn't already have a Pullman and wanted to play around with nutation (which I can't do with my current one, as I requested that they oversize it slightly).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sounds like I'll need to buy:
                    • calculator
                    • vst baskets
                    • microbalance accurate to min 0.01g (preferably 0.001g)
                    • refractometer
                    • special tamper- which will of course need to be modified so as to provide a perfect level and tamp pressure to 0.001kg accuracy
                    • oh yeah. I'll need a EK43 as well as without this none of the above will work
                    • Strada EP

                    I'll trade in my palate (clearly not required)....So what's the damage?

                    Surely then if I obtain some virgin picked coffee and develop a 15 minute spiel and wow 'em all with technology, I'll be the next WBC. The numbers tell it so. I'll just send a tape as there will be no need to enter. The judges will just know I won it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                      Crikey! looks like I hit the jackpot, because I tend to look at things realistically rather than through rose coloured glasses, I've been branded ignorant, insecure, rabid and a sideline doubter.

                      Steve 82 has it pretty well nailed.
                      My comment wasn't directed specifically at you Yelta. That said, it's quite a list you have there. Well done.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MrWhite View Post
                        My comment wasn't directed specifically at you Yelta. That said, it's quite a list you have there. Well done.
                        Thanks Mr White.

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                        • #13
                          I'm wondering if someone may consider approaching one of the more prestigious machine manufacturers about designing a new machine based solely around VST baskets and dedicated tampers.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                            I'm wondering if someone may consider approaching one of the more prestigious machine manufacturers about designing a new machine based solely around VST baskets and dedicated tampers.
                            I do believe La Marzocco ship all machines with VST's. Mine certainly did.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just curious, where do they claim you need to buy all of the items you list below just to use a tamper?

                              Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                              Sounds like I'll need to buy:
                              • calculator
                              • vst baskets
                              • microbalance accurate to min 0.01g (preferably 0.001g)
                              • refractometer
                              • special tamper- which will of course need to be modified so as to provide a perfect level and tamp pressure to 0.001kg accuracy
                              • oh yeah. I'll need a EK43 as well as without this none of the above will work
                              • Strada EP

                              I'll trade in my palate (clearly not required)....So what's the damage?

                              Surely then if I obtain some virgin picked coffee and develop a 15 minute spiel and wow 'em all with technology, I'll be the next WBC. The numbers tell it so. I'll just send a tape as there will be no need to enter. The judges will just know I won it.

                              Comment

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