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Coffee in Europe - they need some lessons in a hurry!!

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  • #16
    You'd be lucky to find anyone in Europe who knows what a flat white is...... unless they have visited Australia or New Zealand....

    or have come across an Australian, um.... tourist.

    It's an Australian coffee drink.

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    • #17
      Just had an espresso by the lake in Lausanne and it was remarkably similar to what I get at home in a cafe. Drinkable but nothing special

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      • #18
        My experience has been that if you're in a European / British city for a while, and do some research /legwork you can find excellent coffee. But if your schedule restricts you a small radius arounds toursity type places your odds ain't so great (but Europe is not alone in that regard). My experience is largely Paris, Belgium, the Netherlands, and UK (London / Bristol).

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
          My experience has been that if you're in a European / British city for a while, and do some research /legwork you can find excellent coffee. But if your schedule restricts you a small radius arounds toursity type places your odds ain't so great (but Europe is not alone in that regard).
          Put yourself in the shoes of a tourist who gets off their cruise ship at Circular Quay and grabs a coffee at one of the cafés there. Maybe it won't be dishwasher-grade, but it won't be a patch on what they can get if they walk 300m in a different direction, if only they knew.

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          • #20
            My limited experience of Italy is that I never bother drinking coffee in places like railway stations or airports. Yet within a few metres of the old platform 24 at Termini in Rome you could get a great caffe e cornetto for instance early in the morning at a very busy cafe/. Where I worked from time to time, in a smallish town in Latina, my colleagues would go out of their way to avoid some coffee places and go to others. One for instance, a few minutes out of town, looked just like a roadside stop - a servo - and yet had a very busy coffee business. Another, right in the middle of town was completely crowded mid-morning. They insisted that if the machine wasn't super busy the coffee would be rubbish. I suspect some chicken and egg in that. On a cold morning they would drive to yet another place a few minutes away to be able to sit out in the cold with a very good espresso and a glass of grappa.

            I found that if I went where they went, and drank what they drank I always got decent coffee. The very humble "hotel" I stayed in - more like a motel here - the night porter could be relied on to produce a perfect espresso at any hour.

            I don't think it's much different to here. There are some places you wouldn't drink coffee, there are some places you would and you'd tend to go with what you know a place does well.

            Just my limited experience.

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            • #21
              I agree with Jonathon and Perlorus. The two worst coffees I have had in the Sydney CBD were at the tourist spots next to the Opera House and at Central Railway Station, both undrinkable to me. Worse than dishwater, more like sewerwater.

              I find that cafés that don’t rely on the passing trade and encourage repeat visits, such as near the office blocks, often work harder to make good quality coffee.

              When last in the Northern Hemisphere, I found great coffee once in London and once in Dublin. I haven't been to Italy.

              Barry
              Last edited by Barry_Duncan; 7 July 2014, 11:38 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Jonathon View Post
                Put yourself in the shoes of a tourist who gets off their cruise ship at Circular Quay and grabs a coffee at one of the cafés there. Maybe it won't be dishwasher-grade, but it won't be a patch on what they can get if they walk 300m in a different direction, if only they knew.
                Yep, that was my point with the '(but Europe is not alone in that regard)' qualifier.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Pelorus32 View Post
                  My limited experience of Italy is that I never bother drinking coffee in places like railway stations or airports. Yet within a few metres of the old platform 24 at Termini in Rome you could get a great caffe e cornetto for instance early in the morning at a very busy cafe/. Where I worked from time to time, in a smallish town in Latina, my colleagues would go out of their way to avoid some coffee places and go to others. One for instance, a few minutes out of town, looked just like a roadside stop - a servo - and yet had a very busy coffee business. Another, right in the middle of town was completely crowded mid-morning. They insisted that if the machine wasn't super busy the coffee would be rubbish. I suspect some chicken and egg in that. On a cold morning they would drive to yet another place a few minutes away to be able to sit out in the cold with a very good espresso and a glass of grappa.

                  I found that if I went where they went, and drank what they drank I always got decent coffee. The very humble "hotel" I stayed in - more like a motel here - the night porter could be relied on to produce a perfect espresso at any hour.

                  I don't think it's much different to here. There are some places you wouldn't drink coffee, there are some places you would and you'd tend to go with what you know a place does well.

                  Just my limited experience.

                  At last! Someone speaking common sense.

                  A very good first post. And welcome to the forum.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Brevillista View Post
                    At last! Someone speaking common sense.

                    A very good first post. And welcome to the forum.
                    Thanks for the welcome, I've been sitting quietly in the corner for a while watching, listening and enjoying myself :-)

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                    • #25
                      You're dead right Juvv, espressos were OK, some very good but milk drinks, which I prefer weren't. The milk, 90% of the time was frothy not creamy with microfoam the way we like it here. The top of nearly all cappuccinos were pure white with no coffee showing. I also, as mentioned in my opening post, went out of my way to find specialist coffee shops, when I was in a big city, and not the train stations or airports. A fair number of the shots were actually good with good flow rates, colour etc but they spoiled it by overly frothing the milk. I'll refine my conclusion then. Espressos OK in the right sort of place but milk drinks were basically meringueacinnos.

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                      • #26
                        I'm wondering what level of experience/expertise some of the opinions expressed in this thread are based on?

                        Seems to be a lot of personal expectation, preference and bias being expressed.

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                        • #27
                          So are you saying that only people with a high level of experience and expertise have an opinion worth listening too? If so then that's very snobby!!!
                          I'm very interested in other people's opinion regardless of their experience, that's why I started this thread, to see if other people agreed or disagreed. I went to 16 countries and tried to find a great coffee every day and all I'm saying is that I found that difficult. To question the value of people's comments on this thread and others based on a possible bias or lack of expertise is the reason so many people don't post. Everybody has an opinion worth listening too. If you want to take their opinions with a grain of salt then that's fine but there is no need to post that.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by barri View Post
                            So are you saying that only people with a high level of experience and expertise have an opinion worth listening too? If so then that's very snobby!!!
                            I'm very interested in other people's opinion regardless of their experience, that's why I started this thread, to see if other people agreed or disagreed. I went to 16 countries and tried to find a great coffee every day and all I'm saying is that I found that difficult. To question the value of people's comments on this thread and others based on a possible bias or lack of expertise is the reason so many people don't post. Everybody has an opinion worth listening too. If you want to take their opinions with a grain of salt then that's fine but there is no need to post that.
                            So, there you are, I've expressed an opinion, which as you say is my right, its an open thread.

                            When opinions expressed by others seem to fly in the face of facts I will question them.

                            The name of the forum is Coffee Snobs, not Coffee Plebs.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Yelta View Post

                              When opinions expressed by others seem to fly in the face of facts I will question them.
                              I don't want this to degenerate into a slugging match but what facts are you talking about? You obviously have them!

                              This thread is about whether people agreed or disagreed with my opening post. Its a personal choice. Your post #2 was a valuable read. So was post #3. People disagreed with me, particularly Italy. Some said I was too harsh. That's fine. That's my personal experience going to many cafes. Its got nothing to do with facts, experience or expertise, its all to do with people's experiences in Europe and their personal opinions. Your post #26 stifles people giving their personal opinions. Can we now get back on topic or end it. Either way's fine.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by barri View Post
                                Your post #26 stifles people giving their personal opinions. Can we now get back on topic or end it.
                                Not at all, post away, its all grist for the mill, when members tire of the topic it will draw to a close.

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