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Coffee in Europe - they need some lessons in a hurry!!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Seems to be a lot of personal expectation, preference and bias being expressed.
    Yup, just as you constantly do in these forums. You have no more right to state your opinion and/or experiences than anybody else does. So instead of your constant belittling and snide comments to/about others climb down off your high horse, get over yourself, and worry more about how you express yourself than what others experiences are.


    Java "Tosses the soapbox on the campfire" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Javaphile View Post
      Yup, just as you constantly do in these forums. You have no more right to state your opinion and/or experiences than anybody else does. So instead of your constant belittling and snide comments to/about others climb down off your high horse, get over yourself, and worry more about how you express yourself than what others experiences are.


      Java "Tosses the soapbox on the campfire" phile
      Well said Javaphile, like you I'm not shy about expressing an opinion.

      If any of my posts offend you feel free to delete them, I will understand.

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      • #33
        Agreed. I reckon opinions are fine on the forum.

        Personal snipes/slaps are best kept for face to face or non public methods- regardless of who's doing the sniping.

        As for Europe? I had some pretty good espresso in Milan- but if you're looking for light roast fruit, good luck!

        Machine hygiene from shot to shot was universally non-existent in my experience. Dump the old puck, 2 thwacks from the full doser into the dirty portafilter, load with no rinse and push the button. I was surprised they were even drinkable!
        Last edited by TC; 8 July 2014, 07:17 PM.

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        • #34
          Hi everyone,

          When I went to Europe 20 years ago, I thought the coffee's in Paris were rubbish at best...When I was in Venice, Florence and Rome I didn't do much coffee as the temps were cruising on about 35C-40C...Pizzas and pasta were rubbish IMO though... I had nice vienna coffees along with some nice sache torte in Salzburg...Getting back to coffee in Paris I was most disappointed although the cappuccino at Foget's was nice...I have recently been to Paris and found it's what you ask for....If you ask for a Cafe O'late you will probably get and ordinary coffee made with milk but...If you ask for an espresso O'late or make sure the cappuccinos are made from an espresso base you will generally get a nice coffee...If you ask for an American coffee well you get what you deserve IMO...Rubbish...Don't forget that Americans generally make their coffee in a way that is not nice and they make up for a lot of tourist euro over there...Having said that I think they have changed their mindset a bit and do have a nice range of espresso based coffees over there now...Anyway that's my experience...I wonder if others found what I found...

          I would expect wherever you go in Europe, It would depend on what you asked for weather you get a nice espresso based coffee or the not so nice American coffee.

          Cheers.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by barri View Post
            The top of nearly all cappuccinos were pure white with no coffee showing.
            As they should be

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bigdaddy View Post
              Pizzas and pasta were rubbish IMO though... .
              Hmmmm, I hear where your coming from, on the way home I remarked to my wife that perhaps (because of the post war Italian migration) we are spoiled for choice in Melbourne and Adelaide, our Italian restaurants and smallgoods manufacturers are of a very high standard, as is the coffee, perhaps the equal of anything I experienced in Italy.

              The exceptions are Prosciutto ham (generally streets ahead of ours) and some of their bread was very good.

              Other Australian cities may be similar, however I mention Melbourne and Adelaide because I've spent a lot of time in both, the others, not so much.

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              • #37
                If you ask for a Cafe O'late you will probably get and ordinary coffee made with milk but...If you ask for an espresso O'late or make sure the cappuccinos are made from an espresso base you will generally get a nice coffee...If you ask for an American coffee well you get what you deserve

                You're making it sound like Irish Coffee ;-)

                You mean café au lait.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
                  Agreed. I reckon opinions are fine on the forum.

                  Personal snipes/slaps are best kept for face to face or non public methods- regardless of who's doing the sniping.

                  As for Europe? I had some pretty good espresso in Milan- but if you're looking for light roast fruit, good luck!

                  Machine hygiene from shot to shot was universally non-existent in my experience. Dump the old puck, 2 thwacks from the full doser into the dirty portafilter, load with no rinse and push the button. I was surprised they were even drinkable!
                  Half the people I work with do this, and this is in Australia! Makes me embarrassed to work where I do.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Brevillista View Post
                    You're making it sound like Irish Coffee ;-)

                    You mean café au lait.
                    And I thought it (cafe o'late) referred to a coffee that took a very long time to prepare

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jakeyden View Post
                      Half the people I work with do this, and this is in Australia! Makes me embarrassed to work where I do.
                      Count your blessings; three shots through each puck of preground and a litre pitcher sitting warm on the cup-tray was SOP at my last gig.

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                      • #41
                        I got some decent espresso in Milano, but the highlight in Italy was a café on Lido in Venice that did a superb espresso and a great (but too short for me) macchiato. (I got talking to them when I asked them to do it twice in the same cup. )

                        French coffee was almost undrinkable for me - couldn't find a place that made something I could finish and that includes Petit Maxims. Bath had a place that made decent latté but weirdly their macchs were crap.

                        I'd agree with don't drink coffee where the tourists go - get into the suburbs or lanes or backstreets - a little hubbly-bubbly café in Cairo made great coffee, but it wasn't espresso - more like a sweet Turkish. I couldn't find drinkable coffee in China at all - had to stick to Hong Kong-made Guinness, which was only marginally more drinkable.

                        I got into an argument/discussion with some arm-waving Italians in Napoli because I said we made better coffee... then blasphemed by following with we make better pizza as well. After seeing the 4 guys had guns in holsters under their arms I realised (tipsy as I was) I was in a Mafia bar and we parted on friendly terms after I made the point we were only so good because they had taught us how to make them... (fun night...)

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                          Hmmmm, I hear where your coming from, on the way home I remarked to my wife that perhaps (because of the post war Italian migration) we are spoiled for choice in Melbourne and Adelaide, our Italian restaurants and smallgoods manufacturers are of a very high standard, as is the coffee, perhaps the equal of anything I experienced in Italy.

                          The exceptions are Prosciutto ham (generally streets ahead of ours) and some of their bread was very good.

                          Other Australian cities may be similar, however I mention Melbourne and Adelaide because I've spent a lot of time in both, the others, not so much.
                          Yes, I have spent most of my time in Adelaide and visited Melbourne a lot... I agree about the prosciutto ham (have you tasted the horse variety...Yum) and bread... yeah maybe... I've had some nice bread here too...I find it interesting you being to Italy recently, finding the quality of pizza and pasta hasn't changed much... I do agree about the quality of food and coffee...I think it's because both Melbourne and Adelaide have been embracing and accepting people relocating for a very long time...The Barossa Valley over here is a classic example of that...And as a consequence we have been fortunate enough to have a wide variety of restaurants and cafes open up who have adjusted what they serve well to the locals tastes.....

                          Originally posted by Brevillista View Post
                          You're making it sound like Irish Coffee ;-)

                          You mean café au lait.
                          Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
                          And I thought it (cafe o'late) referred to a coffee that took a very long time to prepare
                          Ha,ha,ha that's funny...

                          Car'n you guys ...Give this illiterate a break...I'm battling to legibly write and sPeLl proper in inglish, let alone French lol... OK OK.... Cafe au lait...If you must ...

                          Cheers.

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                          • #43
                            Will have to take your word on the horse Prosciutto BD, being a horse lover I would not knowingly eat it.

                            However, having said that, many years ago I was served a steak, I commented on the excellent quality and was told it was horse I know its a personal thing, just me, I imagine others feel the same.

                            I believe the Dutch are big into horse meat.

                            Re the bread, the best we had was here http://www.baccalaria.it/# a small restaurant in Naples specialising in Baccala (salt cod) yes, the cod was very good as well, we dined there a couple of times.

                            The site linked to is in Italian and is not easy to navigate, worth a look though.
                            Last edited by Yelta; 9 July 2014, 11:33 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Looking up the thread I note some people have mentioned they wouldnt buy coffee in (Italian) train stations and airports...I guess they have been looking for the oz type lartays and capps. Bars ("cafes") in italian airports and train stations are high volume and if you stick t what they drink (espresso/ristretto but as someone esle stated you dont need to order that just aske fr a coffee), it will be perfectly fine even if i some cases it may be their robusta laden commodity blends....if you drink it their way by adding their 6 gram sugar portion. I think the moral is to always drink it their way rather than to expect them to make something from your (another) culture, and it will be perfectly fine and give you the lift you need after that long trip

                              It will also need to noted, that the milk they all use in bars ("cafes") is always UHT. It tastes (to us) aweful, and froths into huge airy bubbles....they are not doing it that way on purpose through any technique or lack of as such, its just the way it is for that type of milk. Due to the fact that in their culture they drink espresso for the most part (except for some at breakfast), they are not geared to have large quantities of fresh milk in their bars or fridges to cater for it. Ergo they all keep UHT which doesnt need refrigeration.

                              Hope that helps.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TOK View Post
                                Looking up the thread I note some people have mentioned they wouldnt buy coffee in (Italian) train stations and airports...I guess they have been looking for the oz type lartays and capps. Bars ("cafes") in italian airports and train stations are high volume and if you stick t what they drink (espresso/ristretto but as someone esle stated you dont need to order that just aske fr a coffee), it will be perfectly fine even if i some cases it may be their robusta laden commodity blends....if you drink it their way by adding their 6 gram sugar portion. I think the moral is to always drink it their way rather than to expect them to make something from your (another) culture, and it will be perfectly fine and give you the lift you need after that long trip

                                It will also need to noted, that the milk they all use in bars ("cafes") is always UHT. It tastes (to us) aweful, and froths into huge airy bubbles....they are not doing it that way on purpose through any technique or lack of as such, its just the way it is for that type of milk. Due to the fact that in their culture they drink espresso for the most part (except for some at breakfast), they are not geared to have large quantities of fresh milk in their bars or fridges to cater for it. Ergo they all keep UHT which doesnt need refrigeration.

                                Hope that helps.
                                Very much a case of "When in Rome"

                                (“if you should be in Rome, live in the Roman manner; if you should be elsewhere, live as they do there”); which is attributed to St Ambrose.
                                http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/when_i..._the_Romans_do

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