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How Fresh is your coffee??

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  • #16
    Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

    Roasting coffee.... just like extracting coffee.... is an art more than a science.

    Commercial roasters will get far more consistent, repeatable and uniform results. They also need to sell all the coffee they roast - so many roasters sell stale coffee.

    But do we want / need consistent uniform roasts? - we DO want freshly roasted beans!!! The variation in roasts, both between roasts and within the bean mass itself adds interest to the flavour of the resultant espresso.

    One of my personal favourites is Mals PNG peaberry blend at two different roast levels. Ive tried this with other beans.... some are very successful - others less so...... but the results have all been pleasant to drink and I know that the beans are fresh.....

    So if you want consistent roasts (which may at times be less fresh) there is no doubt commercially roasted is better - with the caveat that the roaster must be selling freshly roasted beans if you want optimum espresso....

    But if you like to experiment with different flavours from the same bean, have fun doing it, and you like to know the beans are always fresh - then home roasting is for you. Its not hard to get excellent results - they wont be exactly the same as their commercial counterparts - but will make excellent espresso.

    After all - its whats in the cup that counts - and a significant contributor to that is bean freshness..... and with many (probably most) commercial roasters that cant always be guaranteed. :-/

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    • #17
      Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

      FC I think youve taken it personally.

      And why wouldnt my popper be consistent?
      I usually roast within stable parameters.
      - Ambient temp 20 degrees.
      - Batch size always 100g.
      - Same popper.
      - Same fan for the chaff.
      - etc, etc.

      Whilst I agree that your roasts will be better than mine, which is why most of the coffee I drink is professionally roasted, to paraphrase fatboy, not all roasters are of a better standard than home roasters.
      If their coffee is better it may not be sold within the optimum period. That has already been agreed in this thread.

      I have experienced professionally roasted coffee not as good as even my fledgling home roasted stuff.
      I was unable to get to my usual roaster and in desperation went to the next nearest "well known" roaster.

      Again, Im sure your roasts are great.
      I gather that from the passion that I detect in you.
      But please dont let your business brain make you one eyed.

      Despite my distate for smilies:   BE C8-) 8-)L

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      • #18
        Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

        I agree with JB; roasting well is definitely an art! There are so many variables that have a direct bearing on the roast outcome. Experience seems to be the key. Learning the subtleties of different beans and how they behave when subjected to the roasting process can only be achieved by action and observation. Then we have blending....

        Anybody can roast beans. But, to be able to achieve a certain bean flavour profile and do it consistently is the hard part. It certainly is fun trying though. And you are always guaranteed freshness when you roast beans yourself....although their flavour may, at times, leave a little to be desired.

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        • #19
          Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

          All,

          dont worry there is no offence taken but you are right I did zero in on the "........coffee roasting is really very easy........." line.....

          You have all been so good natured in your subsequent replies that I am going to edit my previous post and get rid of my reference to the comment.........

          By the way I also have a small, domestic use hot air (fluid bed) roaster and I occasionally also have fun with that.

          So, there you go!

          Regardz,
          FC.

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          • #20
            Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

            This is what I love about Coffee Snobs! We can all experience professional and home style advice which is always helpful and practical! And we can hear each others opinions on what we have experienced either in the professional realm or home world! Great stuff.

            Personally, I love going out to experience the commercial and professional world be it for food or coffee. Its a great way to see how it is being done and there is always something to take home for your own use. I guess you could call it inspiration! (whilst others would call it "imitation"!) Though from the professional side of the bench, I can see why we can do things better than those at home. And that would be because we are usually doing it a lot and if we are good professionals were usually trying to do it very well all the time. One thing I say to my swimming squads is "Practise perfect pratice." And I guess it is something that I do in my own job. People here have even commented on this kind of thing. There are those who are struggling at home to get their coffee as great as in the cafes that they admire and love going to. I totally believe that this is because those cafes are churning out many coffees whilst at home most folk are only doing a few in comparision. This is not meant as a slur on any one! This is just my own observation and opinion! If you are wanting to get a world championship in swimming, then you wont get it on just doing a few laps a day! If you want to be the world latte art champ, you need to train up to 8 hours a day! You need to do lots and lots of practice. I think it is the same for whether it be making coffee or baking bread. Good things can be acheived at home of course, Im not knocking that. Many friends comment on my ability to produce great food and coffee in my domestic kitchen. But I will always say its because I do get lots of practise at it!


            So, maybe its practice rather than whether youre a professional or not. Hmm, now I think Im really stirring the pot!

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            • #21
              Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

              I apologise if I offended you FC - my comments werent aimed at you, and I did say some not all.

              Please be aware that I live in Adelaide. Home of overroasted coffee beans. There are a few (minority) roasters that do a great job, unfortunately, one of the major roasters in this city consistantly sells over roasted beans - I know because I have paid a lot of money for their blends and they have been awful. Yet they are popular because they have been around a long time and are more well known than other roasters. Somehow they have managed to convince the population that overroasted burnt coffee is the best way to go.

              Roasting in a popper is easy once you get the hang of it and really take note of what you are doing. I myself spent a lot of time reading and discussing and asking questions. I also did a lot of practicing too. I still get the occasional disaster, but it is more me than the popper. I am getting to a point now that I feel confident giving my home roasted coffee to people for their own use - and I get very positive comments back.

              Like other people here it is a hobby for me and also a way of saving money. It is also a way for me to occupy my brain.

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              • #22
                Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                Originally posted by scoota gal link=1175597505/15#19 date=1175665805

                So, maybe its practice rather than whether youre a professional or not. Hmm, now I think Im really stirring the pot!
                Good on ya scoota..... there is a considerable degree of truth in that statement for both brewing and roasting......

                But when it comes to the "top of the tree" in both areas- the operator skills are very finely honed - then the quality of equipment kicks in.

                I could never make an espresso as good as Epic can and if Coreys top barista used my machine it would also not be as good....

                And the same applies IMHO to roasting.... but the type of establishments who have staff trained to that level are a small percentage. There are quite a few where the users dont do justice to the machine (coffee and or roaster) and even more where they are matched ( both fair to poor examples)...

                So with practice, practice and more practice we can probably better maybe 80%- 90% of the professionals in both areas.....some of whom have far better gear- and should be getting better results.

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                • #23
                  Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                  If one of the roasters you like in Canberra is my own establishment, thank you for the kind words above and please, just ask for me next time you come in (make sure to advise the staff you are a member of the CoffeeSnob group). As long as I am not in the middle of something life threatening, we can have a coffee together.
                  Yes FC, CSMRX is one of the establishments I was talking about (not in reference to the date on package though). Most of the time I am very happy with the excellent, mouth watering, fresh coffee I purchase. I just wish i knew the roast date and then my "most" might become "all of the time + when i believe it is at its best ill be able to make a realistic observation on the based on the age of the coffee. I know its difficult for your staff to tell because they give me the coffee from the bottom of the hopper which may be an older batch to whats in the top of the hopper (does that sound right?). I have tried sticking to the more popular blends (like Blue) with better results almost all of the time.

                  I had an Excellent F R E S H tasting coffee at the silo cafe the other day. I figure your turn over with that blend must be very regular so i have ordered 1 kg of silo blend beans which is being delivered in the morning... .I still will not know the roast date, but if its the same as what they are serving at silo i will be quite happy. And, I will try to talk to you before my next order..

                  Thanks

                  SC

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                  • #24
                    Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                    The best advantage of a popper is that you know when it is roasted. The speed at which it roasts and the variable on the micro roaster scale do detract from the overall result. Still, youll get a better coffee from this than from most sources. My heat gun is currently broken and I am drinking coffee from a local WA roaster (Fiori) and I am really pleased with the flavour profiles I am experiencing. Sometimes it is just nice to take a break and savour someone elses hard work.

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                    • #25
                      Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                      Originally posted by Sink cut link=1175597505/15#22 date=1175681769
                      I figure your turn over with that blend must be very regular so i have ordered 1 kg of silo blend beans which is being delivered in the morning...
                      1 Kilo..?

                      How long does it take you to get through 1 Kilo of beans?

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                      • #26
                        Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                        Originally posted by grendel link=1175597505/15#23 date=1175685442
                        Sometimes it is just nice to take a break and savour someone elses hard work.
                        I have to agree with this. Every now and then I like to buy some already roasted beans, just to try something a little different to my beans, and sometimes just to see how someone who is more skilled than I might roast similar beans. (Sometimes it is just because I have run out of my own stock ).


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                        • #27
                          Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                          Scoots - I agree.

                          When I worked at a help desk it was easy to fix computer problems because I saw them every day.
                          Whereas the victim might only run into that problem once a year.

                          Same as an auditor, I got to see processes over and over again, and the people meant to use them might only put those processes into practise a few time a year at most.

                          Last but not least, I have been learning karate for over 30 years.
                          That is all about practise; always aiming for perfection.

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                          • #28
                            Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                            Originally posted by Thundergod link=1175597505/15#26 date=1175691196
                            Last but not least, I have been learning karate for over 30 years.
                            I could make a joke about that but realising that youve been doing it for over 30 years made me think that you could probably hurt me really badly and not leave any marks...so Im not going there.   ;D

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                            • #29
                              Re: How Fresh is your coffee??

                              1 Kilo..?

                              How long does it take you to get through 1 Kilo of beans?
                              Takes me 1 to 2 weeks lately... I have lots of people comming over...
                              + 1 kg is the minimum order they will deliver for free!

                              SC

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