Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

[TC]

Some recent Melbourne experiences. Im ready to pat the good ones on the back and would love to name and shame if required- but I wont . I am over being ripped off for rubbish. Lets spend our bucks at the good places when were out...

A minor place- Brunswick. Technically excellent Atomica espresso and perfect milky coffee- from a LM Linea- expertly poured. Excellent breaky as well. Other than a big love of the spoon to assist with the milk pours, these guys do it really well.

Bebita - Level 2 Melb. Central...
This is Dave Makins newly opened cafe (though he doesnt work there). Very good Veneziano from a LM grinder and FB80. I have no doubt it will be even better as they dial in and learn their cafe. Bread based lunch offer looked great! Grab a shot, pull up a pew at the communal table and enjoy.

2mcm

[Matt_King]

Re: Good ones and bad ones- espresso out

Are these places becoming CS sponsors?

[Lovey]

Re: Good ones and bad ones- espresso out

Are we going to get sued for defamation if we deride someones business? :-?

[TC]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Are these places becoming CS sponsors?

:-? Not likely that wed ever see a cafe as a sponsor I would suggest....

Are we going to get sued for defamation if we deride someones business?

Probably  :- can we countersue for misrepresentation of espresso? Original post modified to remove the outing of the bad ones :P

[>Veneziano]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

I find it difficult to believe that anything can be defamatory if its an honestly held opinion based on fact. Particularly if its an opinion held by someone who knows what theyre talking about.

can we countersue for misrepresentation of espresso?

TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 52
Misleading or deceptive conduct

(1) A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, engage in conduct that is misleading or deceptive or is likely to mislead or deceive.

TRADE PRACTICES ACT 1974 - SECT 53
False or misleading representations

A corporation shall not, in trade or commerce, in connexion with the supply or possible supply of goods or services or in connexion with the promotion by any means of the supply or use of goods or services:

(a) falsely represent that goods are of a particular standard, quality, value, grade, composition, style or model or have had a particular history or particular previous use;

(aa) falsely represent that services are of a particular standard, quality, value or grade;

(c) represent that goods or services have sponsorship, approval, performance characteristics, accessories, uses or benefits they do not have;

... Id say thats a yes ;P Guess that means that we should start taking measuring shotglasses into cafes. I can just see it now:

"Your honour, this photograph demonstrates that I was served a 45mL shot of espresso. Given that the Instituto Espresso Nationale definition is 27.5+/- 3mL, I submit that I was misled and deceived under ss 52 and 53 of the TPA."

"This court finds that the plaintiff has made his case. Judgment entered for the plaintiff in the amount of $2.80. Plaintiff to pay the defendants costs of $2,453.20."

Whatever happed to "to the victor go the spoils" ;P

Cheers,

Luca

[>Veneziano]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Bebita - Level 2 Melb. Central...
This is Dave Makins newly opened cafe (though he doesnt work there). Very good Veneziano from a LM grinder and FB80. I have no doubt it will be even better as they dial in and learn their cafe. Bread based lunch offer looked great! Grab a shot, pull up a pew at the communal table and enjoy.

Aaargh; cats out of the bag!

[Thundergod]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

There are plenty of review sites where you can leave feedback on these places.

[luca]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

There are plenty of review sites where you can leave feedback on these places.

Might be worthwhile if you want to give them some publicity, but most cafe review sites are an absolute joke. Theres one site where a team of four or five self-professed "experts" "reviewed" cafes by going and ordering a single drink ... basically anything, and mostly takeaway. So you got really top places being canned because their single shot, 16oz hazelnut latte wasnt hazelnutty enough or some similar garbage. What I found absolutely hilarious was that the last time I stumbled across that site the top rating was given to a cafe where the drink that they ordered was a hot chocolate!

For cafe reviews, I think that Ill stick to reputable peoples opinions!

Cheers,

Luca

[Thundergod]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

The sites I was referring to take comments and ratings from the public (even without having to register).
So you can give them a low rating and back it with a well worded comment.

The next person along is therefore forewarned.

[hazbean]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

"Original post modified to remove the outing of the bad ones"

Pity. I liked those comments in your original post!

A bit of honest criticism is a good thing IMHO. Might call to
account some of the cafes around here that trade on the
long-forgotten "prize winning" barista who obviously managed
zero transfer of skills in the day or so he/she was there ...

[AndyL]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

A minor place and the spoon. The guys at a minor place were the first generation of latte artist. They came from a group that were the first crew to do latte art in Melbourne. Extraction, great. When most of us were using stale coffee they were on doing the fresh beans. I remember having coffee made about 8 years ago from them at Atomica. They were pretty awesome back then. Spoon is something they do really well. I tried it last week as a joke and i cant remember how to use the spoon.
If the spoon is done well, it can be better than the free pour. Saw some amazing spoon action today! "no sexual reference"

Went to 7grams last week. Pretty awesome!!

[robusto]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Putting on my QCs wig and silks here,

Defamation laws have changed so that it is now easier to name and shame with impunity, providing it is truthful, not done with malice, and is an an opinion.

"I think Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" would probably be OK.

But "Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" may be defamatory and hard to prove as fact.

-Robusto

[LindaD]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Bebita - Level 2 Melb. Central...
This is Dave Makins newly opened cafe (though he doesnt work there). Very good Veneziano from a LM grinder and FB80. I have no doubt it will be even better as they dial in and learn their cafe. Bread based lunch offer looked great! Grab a shot, pull up a pew at the communal table and enjoy.

Maybe a place for a "get together" outing for CSrs? A beanbay pickup point?

[Lovey]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Putting on my QCs wig and silks here,

Defamation laws have changed so that it is now easier to name and shame with impunity, providing it is truthful,  not done with malice, and is an an opinion.

"I think Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" would probably be OK.

But  "Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" may be defamatory and hard to prove as fact.

-Robusto

Not doubting your bar skills at all your wigedness  ;D,
Ive been told by a journo friend of mine that truth is not a defence to defamation.
I dont know if this is only relates to journos (who seemed to get sued a lot) for printing possibly defamatory stuff in their papers, but it would seem like a bad precedent if that was the case.

[steve]

Re: Good ones, no bad ones- espresso when out...

Putting on my QCs wig and silks here,

Defamation laws have changed so that it is now easier to name and shame with impunity, providing it is truthful, not done with malice, and is an an opinion.

"I think Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" would probably be OK.

But "Crappy Cafes coffee is crap" may be defamatory and hard to prove as fact.

-Robusto

Not doubting your bar skills at all your wigedness ;D,
Ive been told by a journo friend of mine that truth is not a defence to defamation.
I dont know if this is only relates to journos (who seemed to get sued a lot) for printing possibly defamatory stuff in their papers, but it would seem like a bad precedent if that was the case.

I found this on google (first link :-)) http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/defamation.html
It was written in 1996, but says:

The same basic defences apply throughout Australia, although the things you have to prove to apply them may differ. For example, in some Australian states, truth alone is an adequate defence. In other states, a statement has to be true and in the public interest -- if what you said was true but not considered by the court to be in the public interest, you can be successfully sued for defamation.