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  • #31
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/15#29 date=1176638723
    For example, a roasted date can work against a roaster in supermarket sales, in 2 ways:
    a) educated consumers wont buy anything past a certain date according to their personal perception about what they think constututes fresh or stale product and
    b) supermarket staff will pull stock that has gone past a certain date and send it back for credit or replacement.
    Just a personal observation here. In regards to point b, before I started roasting my own coffee, I purchased from the local supermarket that claimed all stock was fresh. The number of times I didnt have to search through the packets of coffee beans to find one that wasnt out of date I could count on one hand.

    I recently went to a smaller convenience store that stocks a local roasters coffee, got it home knowing that this roaster has always produced nice blends and roasts. Pulled a shot and the crema was poor, tasted it and straight away I could tell the beans were stale. I now cant be bothered driving 30k round trip to the roaster to by beans directly. If the dates had been on the packs, the roaster would still have my business when I was low on green beens (not that that will ever happen again)..

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    • #32
      Re: This is more difficult than i thought

      Curmudgeon,

      I guess it really comes down to the niche that you, as the roaster, feel your product best fits....

      Are you aiming at:

      the "bulk" supermarket - stale when vacuum packed market,
      not so stale, brand name supermarket coffee
      boutique cafes
      top quality cafes and "snob" purchasers....

      There is probably a net loss in labelling coffee as suggested if your niche is the first two, and it is probably marginal for the third - but is a definite necessity for the last group.

      The top cafes and people like us do care.... and we want the supplier to care as well.... Its about perception - and that is a big marketing stick. If I went to the supermarket to buy beans (which I never do!) and saw two packs of beans.... one was in a vacuum sealed foil bag with no dates... the other was in sealed foil bag with a one way and a roasted date (and cost 50% more) - which do you think Id choose??.....

      Now the first two groups above are probably more likely to choose on price rather than quality (and probably arent aware of quality in any case)... so if that is your chosen niche.....

      And many purchasers wouldnt know good coffee or beans if they tried them.... 12 month old supermarket cr@p is great coffee to them

      So the undated (well to the consumer undated) product will be fine for most- but it wouldnt sell into this market..... and maybe thats what the roaster has decided..... we perceive the roaster doesnt care about his/her product - but not everyone will share our perception.

      At the end of the day we all make our choices as to what we do and why we do it that way - if we are correct we survive, if not natural selection (in business as well as evolution) will ensure we are as dead as the dodo.

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      • #33
        Re: This is more difficult than i thought

        Dear Curmudgeon,

        My intention was not to "bugger up" your name as you stated, but merely to request more information to the origin of your name. I thought it was a play on letters. You did make a comment in one of your posts alluding to the origin of your name and I was curious.

        On a personal note, however, I do find your posts quite arrogant and unpleasant to read. Sorry, just "calling a spade a spade". For example:

        Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/15#26 date=1176635104

        I will try in future to write all my posts as nicely as possible, atleast as nicely as the other people that write all the wrong information on topic but do it nicely!


        Good night again to all.
        I mean pleeeaaaaasseeee - give me a break!

        Good night Curmudgeon

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        • #34
          Re: This is more difficult than i thought

          I see your point on the dates Curmudgeon but you yourself mention the size of the roasters business.

          In my case I deal with a still "small" roaster.
          She roasts daily and Ive even been there to watch my beans roast (I then put them aside for a week).

          Not having my own roasting business I have at this stage only thought it through on a smaller scale.

          Next time I visit my roaster Ill try to remember to raise the topic and get her thoughts on what shed do if production was higher.

          The answer might just be that she doesnt sell to supermarkets and maybe never will or never will need to.

          EDIT: I see JavaB said the same sort of thing. Damn my typings getting slower.

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          • #35
            Re: This is more difficult than i thought

            Curmudgeon, you may well speak the truth, but if you intend to keep "truth in posting" and "calling a spade a spade", then maybe you could share a little of your coffee background. That way your credentials will speak for themselves and your opinion valued.

            I think that the way others answered Brians original post was fair enough. To my thinking, Brians dilemma was orchestrated by stale, pre-ground beans. I still hold that view. Do I need training? Absolutely! Do I know what Im talking about? Probably not...But never let the truth get in the way of a good story!! :P

            This forum has a wealth of experienced people who are willing to share and help others along the path to finer coffee...heres to you becoming one of them!  

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            • #36
              Re: This is more difficult than i thought

              On the few occasions that I buy pre roasted beans I get them from a small roaster who I trust and have been going to for many years, first at one premises, then at his new one (after a gap).

              He does not have dates on his packs, however, he can tell me if I asked and I also know that he does not sell old or stale beans. He does however, have his dicount blends when his beans are nearly running out of puff and he will tell people when they need to be used by.

              I myself am very new to this roasting thing, as is my partner (he is the chief taster ). I can definitely tell the difference between fresh and stale beans as can OG and many of our friends. I still have a lot to learn, although I have learned a lot.

              To make a statement that people have no idea what they are talking about and need to do a course is arrogant and insulting - maybe meant as a joke but didnt read that way. Most of us are amatuers and we do have a lot to learn, but not all professionals are that great at what they do either. the thing is - we homeroasters are having fun and are getting some pretty good results too. That is what is important.

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              • #37
                Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                so why should a roaster put a date on the bag? well Its a customer service. as others have said knowing the roast date is something important to them. I stopped going to a roasters (that is often busy) due to inconsistencis. someimes I got fresh stuff and sometimes stale. It was pot luck. Im sure for many people they dont care, most of them are buying it pre-ground so freshness inst going to make a huge difference anyhow. For me I dont go there anymore because I just dont know what im getting. If there were roast dates then I probably still would.

                This site is for snobs and we make no apologies to anyone for refusing to drink stale coffee. If someone thinks that is unreasonable then they wont get my hard earned.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                  Hi Curmudgeon

                  Found your comments interesting, well worth the read and obviously coming from a person with a ‘wealth’ of coffee experience. If you are in Sydney or ever passing through I would be very interested to sit down with you and ‘extract’ a bit more of your coffee knowledge. Obviously I’ll buy the espressos.
                  Look forward to reading more posts from a ‘rare’ coffee intellectual.
                  Pinot

                  PS Another definition of Curmudgeon: (no mud on this one)

                  A curmudgeons reputation for malevolence is undeserved. Theyre neither warped nor evil at heart. They dont hate mankind, just mankinds absurdities. Theyre just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor.  . . . . .   They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment.   . . . . .   Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
                       Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They cant compromise their standards and cant manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
                       Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor.
                  - JON WINOKUR

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                  • #39
                    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                    Originally posted by pinot link=1176531432/30#37 date=1176973719
                    Hi Curmudgeon

                    Found your comments interesting, well worth the read and obviously coming from a person with a ‘wealth’ of coffee experience. If you are in Sydney or ever passing through I would be very interested to sit down with you and ‘extract’ a bit more of your coffee knowledge. Obviously I’ll buy the espressos.
                    Look forward to reading more posts from a ‘rare’ coffee intellectual.
                    Pinot

                    - JON WINOKUR
                    Pinot, if I pass through Sydney and regale you with a few "intellectual" coffee facts, will you shout me a few espressos too?  ;D ;D

                    -Robusto

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                    • #40
                      Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                      Originally posted by robusto link=1176531432/30#38 date=1176977472
                      Originally posted by pinot link=1176531432/30#37 date=1176973719
                      Hi Curmudgeon

                      Found your comments interesting, well worth the read and obviously coming from a person with a ‘wealth’ of coffee experience. If you are in Sydney or ever passing through I would be very interested to sit down with you and ‘extract’ a bit more of your coffee knowledge. Obviously I’ll buy the espressos.
                      Look forward to reading more posts from a ‘rare’ coffee intellectual.
                      Pinot

                      - JON WINOKUR
                      Pinot, if I pass through Sydney and regale you with a few "intellectual" coffee facts, will you shout me a few espressos too? ;D ;D

                      -Robusto
                      lol...I will Robusto!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                        "Many a truth was said in jest."

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                        • #42
                          Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                          Robusto
                          The espresso machines is always on!
                          I am in the process of putting together a little espresso play room The new benches have arrived and expect to have a few machines plugged in soon. I am now located about 10 minutes south of the aeroport on the shores of Botany Bay. So you can actually pull up out the front in the cruiser if you prefer!
                          Look forward to meeting up with you. Best to send me an email to john@baristatraining.com
                          Pinot

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                          • #43
                            Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                            small world pinot - Im at Sylvania...ex Dolls Pt.

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                            • #44
                              Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                              Dennis
                              Maybe we know each other?
                              We used to live in Sans Souci then moved to Dolans Bay and now back to Sandringham.
                              Give us a shout if you venture across the bridge. Is your passport valid for leaving the SHIRE?????
                              John

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                              • #45
                                Re: This is more difficult than i thought

                                lol John, unlike most, we havent turned into hobbits and travel across T U bridge daily - am sure we havent met though.

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