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  • muppet_man67
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/45#51 date=1177236830
    muppet_man67,
    so....I am not allowed to call a "spade a spade" and am told here thats its a front for arrogance (read the posts above please), but you are allowed to hide behind the "this is a site for coffeesnobs" line? So, hiding behind the "we are coffeesnobs" line isnt arrogant and an indication of an unreasonable attitude and expectation towards the subject matter?
    I wasnt trying to hide behind that line but more explain that despite financial or economic pressures that roasters may endure, and no matter how few and far between people like us are, that doesnt mean that we should or will accept stale coffee. At the end of the day it is a business decision for the roaster. Do they look to increase sales? or do they look to save money? Whilst its not the majority there are roasters who package their coffee with roast dates. They obviously dont think it is unreasonable or they wouldnt do it. As Flo said I have nothing against roasters who dont choose to supply roast dates, or for that matter sell stale coffee. But my choice is to only buy coffee from places that I know I will get consistency and at a standard that meets or exceeds what I can roast myself at home. imo freshness plays a massive role in this.

    Am I the customer from hell? I dont think so I never complained or asked for a refund. Do I have an unreasonable attitude? It depends on which side of the fence your sitting. Would I be prepared to pay a premium? most definitely if it was required. In my experience though roasters that supply only fresh coffee are priced around the same as those that dont.

    Leave a comment:


  • Flo
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Hi Curmudgeon.

    I was starting to think that you were, in fact, a troll. Im happy to see that I was incorrect and that you are not. I hope your conference was enjoyable.

    Your question regarding roast dates has no easy answer. Your argument has merit as do others who stand on the side of the consumer.

    Obviously, if one is a professional roaster, it goes without saying that the sale of all produce is of utmost concern. Discarding produce that is not sold is money lost. But as JB said, it is probably only going to be a small proportion of consumers to whom the "roasted on" date matters.

    The two professionals that I buy roasted beans from will gladly supply me with a roast date. I then know what to expect. I will not buy browns from supermarkets or other franchised coffee suppliers. This is my decision based on my personal experience. I dont begrudge others who choose to though, and the average punter is probably quite happy with the standard of coffee these beans provide.

    Coffee enthusiasts, however, will either roast their own or buy from vendors they trust.

    The real problem is that there is so much information available; some of it is gold, some, dross. There are also many differing opinions about the best way to do things, even amongst professionals. For example, I know of a commercial roaster who stores their browns in the fridge, and I know of other roasters who dont and say not to.

    So Curmudgeon, dont be too hard on those of us who are not as far down the coffee road as you are. I am learning all the time and that is why I come here..and yes, a class for me is happening this coming weekend.

    All the best.

    Flo

    Leave a comment:


  • mwatt
    Guest replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/45#51 date=1177236830
    mwatt and others writing about so called "dishonesty",
    who is the judge and jury that decides at what point  a particular roast or blend or SO suddenly trascends (spelling?) the point of freshness and is all of a sudden supposedly gone "stale"? My posts were serious, and I am getting nonsence in reply.  Are you going to instigate a system of compulsory "cupping" before a client is allowed to buy, or a supplier is allowed to sell, each and every 100grams of "fresh" coffee in a shop/roasterie?
     
    Yes, thats exactly what I had in mind :

    Of course not. Just as I dont believe the milk goes off on the date stamped on the top of the carton, Im not going to quibble over a few days. However, I dont think its unreasonable to want to know if the coffee Im buying was roasted in the last week, or whether its been sitting on a shelf for several months.

    Leave a comment:


  • GR8WineandCoffee
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Hi there Curmudgeon

    On ya!

    I am also enjoying a glass of red, a 1996 cab/merlot.

    Thanks for your email and I look forward to your offer to meet up in the near future.

    Like yourself, I have found some of the comments interesting.

    Pinot or should I say tonite cab/merlot

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/45#51 date=1177236830
    who is the judge and jury that decides at what point  a particular roast or blend or SO suddenly trascends (spelling?) the point of freshness and is all of a sudden supposedly gone "stale"?
    The purchaser.

    The blend I regularly purchase from my roaster, I actually prefer to drink 7 to 14 days post roast.
    Its quite drinkable earlier, but thats my preference.
    Im quite sure a lot of her customers do drink it from day 2 or 3 onwards.

    So its the consumers decision.

    It depends on their own experiences as to how they reach their decisions, but its their choice.

    Ill occasionally try something "fresher" for the experience and do encourage others to push the limits and try "older" stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • Curmudgeon
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Been away at a convention, come back and look at whats going on here....

    JavaB & Thundergod,
    thanks for taking a serious shot at my questions.

    Pinot,
    thanks for your support brother.

    Others asking about my credentials...for goodness sake, read the stuff and make up your own minds whether what Ive posted makes sense and stop worrying about whether what I wrote apparently wasnt written in a soft enough style for some thin skins.

    mwatt and others writing about so called "dishonesty",
    who is the judge and jury that decides at what point  a particular roast or blend or SO suddenly trascends (spelling?) the point of freshness and is all of a sudden supposedly gone "stale"? My posts were serious, and I am getting nonsence in reply.  Are you going to instigate a system of compulsory "cupping" before a client is allowed to buy, or a supplier is allowed to sell, each and every 100grams of "fresh" coffee in a shop/roasterie?

    muppet_man67,
    so....I am not allowed to call a "spade a spade" and am told here thats its a front for arrogance (read the posts above please), but you are allowed to hide behind the "this is a site for coffeesnobs" line? So, hiding behind the "we are coffeesnobs" line isnt arrogant and an indication of an unreasonable attitude and expectation towards the subject matter?


    Thanks all for your input, I off to turn off the coffee machine and enjoy a glass of red now.  

    Leave a comment:


  • GR8WineandCoffee
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Hi Robusto

    Yep tis me John Doyle, who was one of the original site sponsors!
    Pinot

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by robusto link=1176531432/45#48 date=1177026015
    Pinot --are you the John Doyle Pinot who used to be a site sponsor here?
    -Robusto
    One and the same Robusto

    Good to see you here, John....

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • robusto
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Pinot --are you the John Doyle Pinot who used to be a site sponsor here?

    -Robusto

    Leave a comment:


  • robusto
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    I spent the afternoon boating at Sylvania some years back. I was in a friends ski boat which broke down. A boatload of drunks with guns -- yes, thats right, theyd been out throwing empty cans into the air and shooting at them --offered to tow us back. We didnt refuse.

    --Robusto

    Leave a comment:


  • Flo
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by pinot link=1176531432/30#41 date=1176979001
    Robusto
    The espresso machines is always on!
    I am in the process of putting together a little espresso play room The new benches have arrived and expect to have a few machines plugged in soon. I am now located about 10 minutes south of the aeroport on the shores of Botany Bay. So you can actually pull up out the front in the cruiser if you prefer!
    Look forward to meeting up with you. Best to send me an email to john@baristatraining.com
    Pinot
    Hey Pinot, Im over near Mascot...can I come and play too?

    Leave a comment:


  • mwatt
    Guest replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1176531432/15#29 date=1176638723
    ... while its obvious to see why an educated consumer would like the idea, no one has given us  good reason why the roaster might like the idea.

    Most roasters dont date packets in that way and if you try and look from their side of the coin you might see why they might be resistant to the idea.

    For example, a roasted date can work against a roaster in supermarket sales, in 2 ways:
    a) educated consumers wont buy anything past a certain date according to their personal perception about what they think constututes fresh or stale product and
    b) supermarket staff will pull stock that has gone past a certain date and send it back for credit or replacement.
    ...
    And lastly, at the roaster door you get consumers that wont buy product if they think the coffee they just enquired about is "older" than it should be.
    Not dating coffee youre advertising as freshly roasted seems dishonest to me. If educated people know that its too old, and likely to be stale, and therefore wont buy it, it seems dodgy to be selling it in the first place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    lol John, unlike most, we havent turned into hobbits and travel across T U bridge daily - am sure we havent met though.

    Leave a comment:


  • GR8WineandCoffee
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    Dennis
    Maybe we know each other?
    We used to live in Sans Souci then moved to Dolans Bay and now back to Sandringham.
    Give us a shout if you venture across the bridge. Is your passport valid for leaving the SHIRE?????
    John

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: This is more difficult than i thought

    small world pinot - Im at Sylvania...ex Dolls Pt.

    Leave a comment:

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