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  • #16
    Originally posted by flynnaus View Post
    OK, I fold
    Cant say I blame you Flynn, this thread has turned very Monty Python.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Chris View Post
      Give up thinking in mls you're leading yourself astray.
      Not so Chris, 21 grams of water = 21 milliliters, one milliliter of water has one gram of mass, allowing for density coffee will me marginally heavier, the difference however is insignificant.
      For our purposes grams and mls are interchangeable.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Yelta View Post
        Not so Chris, 21 grams of water = 21 milliliters, one milliliter of water has one gram of mass, allowing for density coffee will me marginally heavier, the difference however is insignificant.
        For our purposes grams and mls are interchangeable.
        21mls of water may well equal 21g, but a 60ml shot of espresso does not weigh 60g. The crema effects the weight of the shot too
        Last edited by jmadden91; 10 March 2016, 04:14 PM.

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        • #19
          It's all very pernickity. I run a 21 gram basket. I get about 60ml out of a shot. It takes less than 30 seconds. I like it.

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          • #20
            Not at all. Do that from day 1 up to day 8 on a fresh roast - the same 60ml from 21gram will be very different in strength. Crema matters.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bmawebb View Post
              It's all very pernickity. I run a 21 gram basket. I get about 60ml out of a shot. It takes less than 30 seconds. I like it.
              And that's all that really matters, as the lyrics to the Ricky Nelson song go "you can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself."

              "

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              • #22
                Alternately, you can't always get what you want, but if you try some times....

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                • #23
                  I knew full well if I posed a seemingly simple question to you lot that it would quickly become philosophical/technical.

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                  • #24
                    Welcome to the world of Zen and the Art of Coffee Brewing.


                    Java "Maintain what?" phile
                    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                      Alternately, you can't always get what you want, but if you try some times....
                      Brought to you by the same mob who was singing about not getting any satisfaction.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                        Not so Chris, 21 grams of water = 21 milliliters, one milliliter of water has one gram of mass, allowing for density coffee will me marginally heavier, the difference however is insignificant.
                        For our purposes grams and mls are interchangeable.
                        True indeed but in essence it doesn't matter for this as its about simplifying to a ratio. 21g in 42g in 30secs out or 2/1 is so easy and gets to that ball park as the OP has found. It works with any basket size too. Is it a rule, no. Will it give you the perfect cup for you, maybe maybe not. For me and my blend 35g of coffee from my 21g basket suits my taste, 1.6/1 or so but any new blend or major change straight back to 2/1 in 30 and play from there. Trust me I hate rules!

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                        • #27
                          That's a plus one from me re 1:2 ratio. It's a reliable entry point. And I'm not alone. Plenty of coffee professionals use the same. Some interesting reading from James Hoffman on global trends on extraction ratios: http://www.jimseven.com/2015/08/31/t...resso-in-2015/

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chris View Post
                            True indeed but in essence it doesn't matter for this as its about simplifying to a ratio. 21g in 42g in 30secs out or 2/1 !
                            If your looking for simplicity why not 21 grams in >< 40mls out into a shot measuring glass, so much simpler than pfaffing around weighing a shot, unless of course you enjoy playing chemist.

                            Personally I can pretty much judge what a 30/60 ml shot looks like in one of my espresso cups, surely cant be much simpler than that.

                            Thanks to DiBartoli for the image.
                            PS not knocking your 2/1 ratio, it works.
                            Attached Files

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                            • #29
                              It isn't phaffing if you have the right scales (don't need to be expensive). The scales sit under the cup. Pretty simple! It gives much greater certainty and consistency. And great when dialling in.

                              That said, working from mls, as long as everything remains equal, will still give good repeatable results. I guess if it worked for the Italians....and plenty after. Mind you, talk to most baristas these days and they are gonna be using scales in some way. It just makes sense. Can you do it with out them? Sure. A useful tool though.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tobeanornottobean View Post
                                It isn't phaffing if you have the right scales (don't need to be expensive). The scales sit under the cup. Pretty simple! It gives much greater certainty and consistency. And great when dialling in.

                                That said, working from mls, as long as everything remains equal, will still give good repeatable results. I guess if it worked for the Italians....and plenty after. Mind you, talk to most baristas these days and they are gonna be using scales in some way. It just makes sense. Can you do it with out them? Sure. A useful tool though.
                                What sort of scales do you use? I have a set of digital kitchen scales but don't think I could fit it in the tray with my cup on it when I'm actually pouring the shot, if this is what you meant? Your measuring during the shot? I'd love to do that but currently for me it's more a so it by eye/time and then measure it after and hope I've hit close to 60ml lol.

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