Expobar Office watery extraction & way too fast

[muso44]

I have just noticed on my machine after watching a video of the
Expobar Office in action that mine is extracting much faster &
I have timed it producing approximately 175mls in 25 seconds
instead of 30mls as I understand it should be.
I am only using supermarket coffee at present but I have had better
tasting coffee from the machine before.
My machine is approximately 3.5 yrs old.
I am using a Sunbeam EM0480 which I realize is not the best but
the extraction should still not be as fast as this.
I have turned down the brew pressure by 2 bar & made coffee taste better
but still has not slowed the extraction rate.
I read on the forum somewhere that there is a restrictor in one of the tubes
just wondering if my machine doesn't have this or is it some other problem?
Any help would be most appreciated.

[MrFreddofrog]

Assuming you haven't changed your dosage or tamping pressure, has it always flowed at this rate or did it gradually get worse or suddenly get worse?

The normal advice would be to reduce your grind size until you get the correct volume but I'm not sure if this is the problem.

Do you have a dual wall basket, that can help with supermarket coffee.

Edit: btw I wouldn't be playing around with bar pressure until you've covered off on the basics, ie grind size, dosage, tamp pressure, fresh beans

[JojoS]

Supermarket coffee (shelf stored and on sale promo specially) and espresso machines seldom work well together in terms of proper flow and timing. I did get some supermarket coffee recently but it was from a vendor concessionaire with an onsite 2KG Diedrich coffee roaster in Manila. They roast 3 times a week. The Tanzanian Kilimanjaro turned out much better than I expected.

It's not a good idea to focus on machine and grinder settings when using stale coffee beans. They will flow like your setup is on laxative.

[muso44]

I haven't changed the dosage or tamping pressure I don't think and I have set my Sunbeam onto the finest grind possible & yet the extraction is still motoring out.
The machine did make nicer coffee before so it could have been slower then but I suspect it has always been fast. It has never been just dribbling out (except maybe at the start like I saw on the video)
I cant grind the beans any finer at present & its a single wall basket with standard PF.
I am not too concerned with adjusting the brew pressure as its easy enough to turn the screw back again 2 turns.
I'm no expert on Expobar but it seems more like more than coffee grind size and tamping pressure to get over 5 times the extraction it seems I should be getting in 25 seconds.
I am going to get a Macap M4D grinder so that will make a bit of a difference but it will be a waste with fresh beans as I feel its extracting way to fast and there is some other issue.

[muso44]

Yes JojoS it is flowing like its on a laxative but will fresh beans slow it down by 5 times the amount?

[JojoS]

Only 1 way to find out. Get some fresh ones then we can start sorting out whatever issues you may have with your setup.

[noidle22]

I haven't changed the dosage or tamping pressure I don't think and I have set my Sunbeam onto the finest grind possible & yet the extraction is still motoring out.

Possibly your grinder has not been shimmed correctly/at all and cannot grind fine enough.

As with the other posters, address your bean issue first and source some fresh beans but it would also be an idea to check your grinder and see if it has been shimmed.
To do this, remove the hopper, grind adjustment collar and outer burr and undo the nut holding the centre burr in place.
You will need a 10mm socket or spanner to remove it. Remember, it is a left hand thread so is removed clockwise and tightened anti clockwise.

Lift out the centre burr and see if there are any small metal washers underneath it. This would indicate it has been shimmed, possibly you need to add another shim to make the grind even finer.
If there are no metal washers in place, you need to add some. Call Sunbeam and they should be able to supply some for you. If not, they are readily available online and are cheap.

[muso44]

Hi Noidle22 I could shim the Sunbeam and get the grind finer but its only a Sunbeam so I will probably just buy a Macap M4D
The Sunbeam looks like its choking now on its lowest setting. I will be very surprised if its not something else that is the problem
rather than just fresh beans and grind size as the grind is very fine even now.
I did use fresh beans before & I dont remember it making that much of a difference over supermarket beans that's why I went back to
the supermarket stuff.

[Sullyboy]

You mentioned you adjusted the brew pressure. What was it originally?

[Javaphile]

What are you calling 'fresh beans'? If they weren't packaged in an airtight or sealed one way valved bag shortly after roasting and you got them with-in days of being roasted then they're not fresh. Beans roasted and then left sitting in jars or bins on a counter which they're bagged from when you buy them are odds on already stale. Which would explain why you're getting the same poor extraction from them as you are from the supermarket beans.


Java "First verify the beans!" phile

[MrFreddofrog]

Though you may disagree, the current consensus is the issues are related to either using stale beans and/or too course a grind. Eliminating the first is easy, go to your local roaster and buy fresh beans.

The second is harder though you say it is already very fine. Shimming it still seems like a very good idea as it will give you more latitude to help diagnose the issue. If the grinder has seen lots of use the burrs themselves may be the issue and need replacing.

I'd still like to know how much you dose and your tamping pressure before ruling those out. Tamping doesn't make that much difference as long as it's enough and done consistently. Dosing will make lots of difference. Place a 10c piece on your puck and insert PF into group heap. Then take it out and it should have left a slight impression. No impression = underdosing, large impression = overdosing.

My comment regarding brew pressure is not related to the ease of changing it. It is just unlikely it will be that. Better to keep that at the default setting until you have eliminated old beans, poor grind, dosing and tamping issues.

[muso44]

What are you calling 'fresh beans'? If they weren't packaged in an airtight or sealed one way valved bag shortly after roasting and you got them with-in days of being roasted then they're not fresh. Beans roasted and then left sitting in jars or bins on a counter which they're bagged from when you buy them are odds on already stale. Which would explain why you're getting the same poor extraction from them as you are from the supermarket beans.


Java "First verify the beans!" phile

I got the beans from Simply Beans in Underwood I understand that Joe is a reputable roaster. I just got some from there today not sure the bag has a one way valve on it though. I always store beans in an airtight container.

[muso44]

Though you may disagree, the current consensus is the issues are related to either using stale beans and/or too course a grind. Eliminating the first is easy, go to your local roaster and buy fresh beans.

The second is harder though you say it is already very fine. Shimming it still seems like a very good idea as it will give you more latitude to help diagnose the issue. If the grinder has seen lots of use the burrs themselves may be the issue and need replacing.

I'd still like to know how much you dose and your tamping pressure before ruling those out. Tamping doesn't make that much difference as long as it's enough and done consistently. Dosing will make lots of difference. Place a 10c piece on your puck and insert PF into group heap. Then take it out and it should have left a slight impression. No impression = underdosing, large impression = overdosing.

My comment regarding brew pressure is not related to the ease of changing it. It is just unlikely it will be that. Better to keep that at the default setting until you have eliminated old beans, poor grind, dosing and tamping issues.

Yes I am yet to be convinced that stale beans will make an almost 600% difference in the rate of the pour, Sure they may not taste that good but I don't see how fresh beans will slow the pour down that much.
I have used the finest grind setting on the Sunbeam grinder which may not be as good as some better grinders but should be ok.
I have been dosing and tamping pretty much the same over the last 3 years. It wont be overdosed because with the single basket if it is overdosed you cant fit the portafiilter onto the group head.
I have tried tamping really hard and not so hard does not make any significant difference to the rate of the pour.
The Expobar baskets have a ring inside them which I guessed is the correct level for the dose. I will try the 10 cent piece.
I don't see why I shouldnt try adjusting the brew pressure as it is probably the simplest thing to adjust on the whole machine & now I have eliminated it.

[muso44]

I now have some fresh beans so will try later tonight to see if that makes a difference to the rate of pour and next week I should have the Macap M4D grinder that I have ordered so will see if that makes a big difference to the pour & at this stage I am still not convinced it will turn the flow I am getting that is like a river & turn it into a trickle. I still have the feeling that a part needs replacing or adjusting somewhere.

[MrFreddofrog]

You're right of course, fresh beans won't account for 600% though it will/should account for a fair portion. With your new batch of beans, what is the roasting date? Fresh is a relative term so knowing the actual date is more useful that someone claiming it is fresh.

I've got a brand new BCG820 grinder and even on it's finest setting it's not fine enough. I had to do some Breville authorised mods before I could get a sub 30sec pour. Point being just because you have it at the finest setting doesn't mean it is fine enough.

Once you are tamping "hard enough" further pressures has minimal effect. BTW what do you mean by "really hard"? Tamp on a set of scales and measure it. The most commonly quoted amount of tamping pressure is 30lbs/15kg though I personally use a lot less than that but I dose differently to most people.

Wrt to adjusting pressure, google how to get the perfect shot and count how many times people suggest changing pressure verses changing grind size, dosage, tamping & freshness. Simply put, it's not necessary.

BTW I had a similar issue with my BCG800 grinder. We never solved the issue but believe it was due to static buildup, possibly due to the grounding wire breaking within the grinder.