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Lungo or longblack???

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  • Lungo or longblack???

    Hey guys, can someone please explain to me why when I ask for a long black at cafes, I either get a traditional long black: hot water topped with a shot of espresso, or I get a I presume is a Lungo a little bit more than a double shot. I like them both but a bit confused. TIA

  • #2
    Inadequate barista training

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    • #3
      I did a basic barista course for amusement. I liked it, but lungo wasn't mentioned. Neither was magic for that matter. They're not mainstream drinks.

      Oooooh. You mean you're being given a shot that's just been left to run til the cup's full?
      nice.
      Agree. Inadequate training or lazy baristarising, I'd say.

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      • #4
        My coffee of choice at home is a Lungo, particularly in the morning, totally different drink to a long black, almost impossible to get a barista to make one in a cafe, don't even try any more.

        A long black or Americano is a shot or two, usually topped up with hot water, no crema, hot, thin and lacking body.

        For a Lungo I grind my beans to enable a flow of approx 90 mls in 30 seconds, what I get is 90 mls of quite viscous coffee, full of flavour with a nice layer of crema floating on top.

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        • #5
          So a cafe would have to adjust their grinder to make a lungo, right?

          on the long black, I was shown to hold the cup up to the spout so the shot pours gently enough onto the hot water to keep the crema. Seems to work.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Yelta View Post
            My coffee of choice at home is a Lungo, particularly in the morning, totally different drink to a long black, almost impossible to get a barista to make one in a cafe, don't even try any more.

            A long black or Americano is a shot or two, usually topped up with hot water, no crema, hot, thin and lacking body.

            For a Lungo I grind my beans to enable a flow of approx 90 mls in 30 seconds, what I get is 90 mls of quite viscous coffee, full of flavour with a nice layer of crema floating on top.
            Don't forget the spoonful of double cream

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            • #7
              Whatever happened to the Vienna?

              loved em in high school when I had pocket money left over!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by shortblackman View Post
                So a cafe would have to adjust their grinder to make a lungo, right?

                on the long black, I was shown to hold the cup up to the spout so the shot pours gently enough onto the hot water to keep the crema. Seems to work.

                Exactly, hence the reluctance to make a Lungo.

                Hear what your saying re the long black, still far too watery for me.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by magnafunk View Post
                  Don't forget the spoonful of double cream
                  He He, I love a spoon full of double cream on top of a shot, very noice.

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                  • #10
                    As a matter of interest, I leave the Mazzer set up to grind for a Lungo, have worked out to grind for approx 30ml shot or a Cappuccino I need to adjust 2 notches finer, seems to work every time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Yelta View Post

                      A long black or Americano is a shot or two, usually topped up with hot water, no crema, hot, thin and lacking body.

                      .
                      The shot ( double is my preference, in a small ACF tulip cup) goes on top of the water, the shot is not topped up with water as you say above. If you top it up the oil is no longer sitting on top. This simple detail makes a remarkable difference to the taste.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pyrmontboy200 View Post
                        The shot ( double is my preference, in a small ACF tulip cup) goes on top of the water, the shot is not topped up with water as you say above. If you top it up the oil is no longer sitting on top. This simple detail makes a remarkable difference to the taste.
                        Yep this exactly. Also don't start with boiling water in the cup, aim for 70-80C. You can get this by adding a dash of cold tap water.

                        Second tip is when you add the double shot on top, let the streams hit the side of the cup, a bit like pulling a beer. This makes a big difference in terms of maintaining crema.

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                        • #13
                          Its doubtful a cafe is going to make either a ristretto or lungo by adjusting the grind, just doesnt make sense in a busy cafe envrionment.

                          Traditionally, in Italy the variation is made in the dosing, so if you order a ristretto they would up the dose a little resulting in a slower and shorter shot, equally for a lungo they would decrease the dose slightly, resulting in a faster and longer shot.

                          Of course at home we can do anything we like and call it whatever takes our fancy!

                          Sadly the worst option is leaving dose and grind the same and just letting the pour run for less or more time to change volume - what I generally see in cafes!
                          Last edited by ArnhemR; 1 May 2016, 11:10 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Yelta View Post
                            A long black or Americano is a shot or two, usually topped up with hot water, no crema, hot, thin and lacking body.
                            That sounds like a badly prepared long black to be honest. There are good and bad ways to make them.

                            Ideally, use a smallish cup like a 160ml Tulip or so.

                            Put the hot water in first. (!Important!)
                            Use about 60 - 80 ml of hot water.
                            Add a splash of tap water to bring the temp down from boiling (some good cafes that "get" long blacks, have a hot water urn set to 80C for this purpose)
                            Pull a double on top. If possible run the stream down the side of the cup rather than straight into the water, or pull the shot into an espresso cup and then add it to the long black by hand. Either way - your aim is to "float" the crema on top.

                            Done well, a long black is a nice way to extend a doppio type beverage. With a good, fresh bean, the extra water can release a bit of flavour nuance, a bit like adding water to a barrel strength single malt. It also makes the drink last longer, which is a practical consideration if you are drinking with company.

                            Done badly, (i.e. too hot, too big, water added last) it's not much better than a cup of International Roast with boiling water.

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                            • #15
                              This article is a good summary.

                              The perfect long black

                              Mugshot

                              Matt Holden


                              It is possible that no brew is so misunderstood as the long black.

                              In the course of 24 hours recently I had a really great long black and a really-not-so-good long black.

                              I have rarely knocked back a coffee, but I didn't drink the really-not-so-good one: it was scalding hot, brimming over the top of the mug and devoid of crema (and flavour).

                              It's possible that no brew is so misunderstood as the long black. The crimes against long black drinkers include:

                              1. Pushing the button on an espresso machine and letting it extract until the cup looks full enough. Not many baristas do this any more, but they did, once upon a time. The resulting cup will be horribly over-extracted and burnt-tasting, not because it is burnt, but because one of the compounds that is extracted from coffee once you pass 30 seconds of extraction tastes of smoke.

                              2. Pulling a double shot and then filling the cup with really hot water from the tap on the espresso machine (or worse, the steam wand). Doing this breaks up the crema and disperses the aromatic compounds trapped in it, so the flavour palette is limited to what you can taste in your mouth - sour, sweet, salty, bitter, umami - without the enhancement of what you can smell: a much greater range (a recent Rockefeller University study put the number of aromas that the human sense of smell can detect at 1 trillion).

                              3. Using water from the machine can also leave the long black drinker with a cup of coffee that is too hot. This is what James Kilby from Padre's Brunswick East Project calls the social angle: "Water from the machine can be close to 100C," Kilby says. "So the long black drinker is still waiting for their coffee to cool when everyone else is finished."

                              The way to make a good long black is to pour the (not too hot) water first, then add the double shot on top. Some cafes pour from a hot water tap on the espresso machine, and the cup can take some of the heat out of the water. At Padre they pour 100 millilitres of water at 70 degrees from an urn.

                              It's easy to tell if a long black has been made properly - it will arrive with some crema (not as dense as a short black because of the bigger surface area), and it will be ready to drink, temperature wise.

                              The long black is a great way to enjoy lighter specialty espresso roasts: the extra water lets the flavours open up a bit. You get the fuller mouthfeel of an espresso - and the chance to linger over your brew.

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