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  • Regulate the Coffee Industry?

    Over the weekend I went with my wife to go get a Coffee and had to drive past possibly 100 or more locations that sell espresso to actually reach a location where folk were that had, the experience, the equipment and of course the passion to create (read: make) espresso.

    It got me thinking and I accept that I look too deeply into matters at times but I wondered, would the coffee industry be best served if it were regulated by laws, rules and guidelines that ensured that people in business that sold coffee to the public we're actually qualified to do so?

    So many times when travelling from point A to B I've fallen into the trap of purchasing crap espresso even after trying to research my purchase before purchase. It seems these days, anyone can buy a good machine, use good quality beans and yet bugger the process up so badly leaving the consumer exposed to all sorts of crap with virtually no recourse whatsoever.

    A few weeks ago, I quizzed a Barista (& I use this term loosely) before purchase and he proclaimed to be "all that" yet what he served to me was revolting, scalding hot, over extracted DUNG. By the time I was holding the beverage it was already paid for and he wasn't even interested in what I thought about it. It was discarded and I left vowing not to return.

    Anyway, fast forward to my most recent purchase (Weekend just gone), a competent barista using good equipment, fresh beans and shovel loads of enthusiasm/passion created a wonderful experience. It was whilst savouring that I wonder how the 'industry' could be best served by a dose of regulation/legislation.

    Lets face it, if I hung a sign outside my shop and offered brown paper bags filled with assorted sweets for sale for $4 but ever so neatly filled the bag with excrement and made the customer pay before serving, can you imagine how long it might be before the powers to be swooped? What makes Espresso any different?

    Would a bit of regulation improve the overall situation, help those within the industry that deserve to thrive, thrive?

  • #2
    Hi

    Regulation would be difficult to do in this situation. Regulations imply penalties. Sometimes a pour doesn't work (one stinker bean in a grinder is all it takes) or the blend has changed and the customer doesn't like it. It still might be a perfect shot but "it doesn't taste the same as last time, I want my money back". Do they report that outlet to the regulator? Govts are not going to have "inspectors" going around to cafes testing machiatos. It's not like testing 316 stainless for tensile strength.

    In the same way you can only check that cheese is safe and not whether its actually good cheese. American cheese on pizzas for instance - its safe to eat but not very nice. Hersheys chocolate - it's safe to eat but not chocolate. So similarly coffee should be just regulated, as it currently is, to not contain pesticides, adulterants etc. To extend that to the Barista and regulate their art and pour is fraught with implementation difficulties, testing methodology and cost.

    It's better to just tell bad cafes that their coffee was poor and you wont be back and to keep coming back to good cafes.

    Mike

    Comment


    • #3
      Really?
      If it works, can you please let me know and we can apply the same model to the food industry. Those cheese injected pizza crusts need to be made illegal!
      the problem is that we live in a service culture, and just like the Americans who invented the term , as long as they politely ask for your order and deliver a product that resembles what you ordered, they have provided good customer service . Quality is irrelevant and purely qualitative ! ( have you seen the quality or American food an coffee? It's crap!!)

      i could name lots of restaurants that the masses rave about and I think are crap, yet people go there regularly and pay hundreds for their meal and leave satisfied .
      Unfortunately, the only option you have is to never return .

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by speleomike View Post
        Hi

        Regulation would be difficult to do in this situation. Regulations imply penalties. Sometimes a pour doesn't work (one stinker bean in a grinder is all it takes) or the blend has changed and the customer doesn't like it. It still might be a perfect shot but "it doesn't taste the same as last time, I want my money back". Do they report that outlet to the regulator? Govts are not going to have "inspectors" going around to cafes testing machiatos. It's not like testing 316 stainless for tensile strength.

        In the same way you can only check that cheese is safe and not whether its actually good cheese. American cheese on pizzas for instance - its safe to eat but not very nice. Hersheys chocolate - it's safe to eat but not chocolate. So similarly coffee should be just regulated, as it currently is, to not contain pesticides, adulterants etc. To extend that to the Barista and regulate their art and pour is fraught with implementation difficulties, testing methodology and cost.

        It's better to just tell bad cafes that their coffee was poor and you wont be back and to keep coming back to good cafes.

        Mike

        Regulation on may not go as far as issuing fines for bad coffee but rather more towards ensuring folk are certified and competent at using equipment.

        Theres already legislation in the food industry, responsible service and so forth.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Enthusiast View Post
          Really?
          If it works, can you please let me know and we can apply the same model to the food industry. Those cheese injected pizza crusts need to be made illegal!
          the problem is that we live in a service culture, and just like the Americans who invented the term , as long as they politely ask for your order and deliver a product that resembles what you ordered, they have provided good customer service . Quality is irrelevant and purely qualitative ! ( have you seen the quality or American food an coffee? It's crap!!)

          i could name lots of restaurants that the masses rave about and I think are crap, yet people go there regularly and pay hundreds for their meal and leave satisfied .
          Unfortunately, the only option you have is to never return .
          The Food industry is already regulated to a point in Australia, of course more could be done, a qualified cook or chef in every kitchen would be a good start.

          Comment


          • #6
            Who on earth would regulate it? Surely you're not suggesting that some level of government do it? There's a long history of well-intentioned regulation that just buggers things up even more, because the very reasons for the market failure mean that it is very difficult (impossible) for bureaucrats to imagine and specify what the ideal situation should be.

            If the majority of the population can't discern a decent coffee from a bitter, stale, but hot morass of liquid, then how would their elected representatives improve things?

            The best you could hope for is a professional accreditation / cafe accreditation scheme that was credible and trustworthy....but there's so much incentive for people to chisel / free-ride that any such scheme would also struggle.

            In the end, as imperfect as it is, the market yields what the average Joe wants, and in bigger markets (and with a bit of legwork on behalf of the consumer) what the more picky consumer wants.

            Comment


            • #7
              I wasn't actually thinking about $500 fines for serving crap espresso.....but then again.

              My idea was like licensing to use certain equipment or advertise certain services.

              To me there's a huge difference between a mistake & absolutely murdering the process BUT perhaps I'm wrong.

              Some places have folk driving machines with no experience or qualification whatsoever.

              Training of the untrained by the untrained. From Idiot to moron and back again.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                Who on earth would regulate it? Surely you're not suggesting that some level of government do it? There's a long history of well-intentioned regulation that just buggers things up even more, because the very reasons for the market failure mean that it is very difficult (impossible) for bureaucrats to imagine and specify what the ideal situation should be.

                If the majority of the population can't discern a decent coffee from a bitter, stale, but hot morass of liquid, then how would their elected representatives improve things?

                The best you could hope for is a professional accreditation / cafe accreditation scheme that was credible and trustworthy....but there's so much incentive for people to chisel / free-ride that any such scheme would also struggle.

                In the end, as imperfect as it is, the market yields what the average Joe wants, and in bigger markets (and with a bit of legwork on behalf of the consumer) what the more picky consumer wants.

                Right you are Barry.

                Professional accreditation would be a fantastic step IMO.

                I guess I mainly object to the deception. A flashing red light fitted to the top of an espresso machine for the unaccredited would suffice I suppose.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I too often wonder how some cafes/vendors can dish out rubbish when they appear to have quality commercial equipment. I guess in this day and age online reviews & word-of-mouth (such as on this forum) can be helpful in the journey towards finding acceptable coffee.

                  I think as we become more & more connected with information sharing that reputation will become more important for coffee vendors in areas of high competition. Does anyone here ever use Beanhunter?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm offering to be some kind of ombudsman.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm also aware that Campos are very particular about any cafes using their beans/brand - apparently they insist on the machines that are used at the cafe and personally oversee the training of staff and then have ongoing quality-control. My journey to coffee snobbery started at their original store in Newtown about 15 years ago, and I have to say that since their empire begun to expand where you see their brand in different towns & suburbs that I've usually found the coffee made to be a good drop. Maybe that's another way through "brand reputation" that consumers can have some confidence of getting an acceptable coffee?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CoffeeHack View Post
                        I'm also aware that Campos are very particular about any cafes using their beans/brand - apparently they insist on the machines that are used at the cafe and personally oversee the training of staff and then have ongoing quality-control. My journey to coffee snobbery started at their original store in Newtown about 15 years ago, and I have to say that since their empire begun to expand where you see their brand in different towns & suburbs that I've usually found the coffee made to be a good drop. Maybe that's another way through "brand reputation" that consumers can have some confidence of getting an acceptable coffee?
                        I didn't know that about Campos, thanks for sharing, I've always had good Campos experience.

                        I agree brands could really drive a standard.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shortblackman View Post
                          I'm offering to be some kind of ombudsman.

                          I willbe your offsider as we as we cruise around in our tax payer funded helicopter sampling coffees and lashing non compliant operators!

                          the key imo is training and setting a minimum standard.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CoffeeHack View Post
                            I too often wonder how some cafes/vendors can dish out rubbish when they appear to have quality commercial equipment. I guess in this day and age online reviews & word-of-mouth (such as on this forum) can be helpful in the journey towards finding acceptable coffee.

                            I think as we become more & more connected with information sharing that reputation will become more important for coffee vendors in areas of high competition. Does anyone here ever use Beanhunter?
                            Never heard of bean hunter but will check it out. It also amuses me when businesses spend a small fortune on equipment but have MRI in regards to its operation. Madness, may as well save you're money and serve from a Nespresso or $20 kettle and blend43.

                            i agree about voting with ones feet but imo at least 5/10 coffees are utter crap, 3/10 mediocre, 1 barely passable &1 good one in every 10 I've sampled In recent years.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sounds good, but the only problem is we're probably not willing to pay $10 per cup. The accreditation, licensing, officer(needs his salary too), education, qualification/certification certainly cost money and it has to come from somewhere.

                              Comment

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