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Double ristretto procedures/stats

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  • #16
    Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
    23 g in a 22 g VST and 26 g of espresso in a total of about 36 seconds (including 20 seconds of 2.5 bar preinfusion)
    I surmise a super fine grind, and a lighter roast (tipped prior to 2nd crack, to ensure no roast flavours, but an emphasis on the sweetness and fruity nature of the beans).
    If done well this yields a sweet and fruity ristretto, with balanced acidity.
    I use a basket (not a VST or EP) that came with my machine and pack 21g into it. Depending on the bean, roast depth and age, I use a long pre-infusion and would stop the shot at anywhere between 25 and 28g. I pull the shot, depending on how it looks and then weigh it to get some context. The result is a sweet and full flavoured ristretto, with great mouthfeel and modest acidity.
    Further context. The beans are carefully chosen and top quality. Predominantly natural. I am extremely careful about acidity, and do not buy any beans that have lemon/grapefruit/jasmine/coriander etc characteristics. Each roasting platform is different, so direct comparisons are difficult. Using less than 21g on my setup does not yield the type of espresso that I like. If the beans have been roasted past the onset of second crack, you will get higher extractions etc, that some people really like, but I (and my family) find the flavours of dk cocoa too dominant.
    It takes a lot of practice to get the roast right, and yes I do burn through a lot of coffee, ensuring the espresso is perfect.
    Last edited by Bosco_Lever; 24 April 2017, 06:33 PM.

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    • #17
      Bosco_Lever, you are absolutely right:
      1. Very fine grind;
      2. I often dump my roasts just after completion of first crack.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
        23 g in a 22 g VST and 26 g of espresso in a total of about 36 seconds (including 20 seconds of 2.5 bar preinfusion)
        I knew your version still has water in it! I thought maybe it is just West Oz shorthand - espresso can be "just the coffee grounds at an espresso grind" or the actual "espresso in the cup" - hence my "gave me a chuckle" comment visualising an all coffee ristretto. Sure would be a short, short ristretto shot...

        Originally posted by Melbroaster View Post
        Wow- do you drink from the cup or just use a knife and fork?????
        Then the above post appeared, so maybe Vic also has the same shorthand.

        Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
        All fine from my perspective
        ... and mine.

        FWIW, ristrettos are usually between 1:1 and 1:2 coffee / water so you are within "new standard range". Mind you the "Italian standards" have been well shredded by the USA to the point they are almost useless these days.

        I usually prefer balanced 7.2g coffee / 28ml water as an espresso (naked P/f / 7g VST baskets, a "trad Italian" 1:4 ratio) or add 100ml frothed milk as a latte. I sometimes do a 20.6 coffee / 25ml water as a ristretto (naked P/f / 20g VST baskets) for a change. A virtually unrecognisable version of the same roast with "plenty of punch" but few high notes. The next extreme is to haul out my cardamom and Ibrik and do a Turkish (about a 0.5:1 or 0.8:1 ratio).

        That is probably in line with your shorter ristretto.

        Originally posted by kwantfm View Post
        I used to have it shorter!
        Also worth a try - use "short ristrettos" when making traditional Black Rye Bread (Russian one in my case, with cocoa as well). I use a 22g VST loaded to 23g and only 17g of coffee / water in the final shot at around the 30 second mark (yep, the grind is significantly altered to match). When baking, the flavour cuts through a lot better than a balanced shot (and sure beats hell out of their usual instant coffee version).

        As I said earlier - enjoy your cuppa, all else is irrelevant anyway.


        TampIt
        PS I only drink light or medium roasts these days. I have pulled 90 second ristretto shots with no bitterness (setting up a new roast) - I suspect a dark roast could not ever do that and furnish something you could drink.

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        • #19
          I find really slow pours still delicious. Never timed it but I reckon some were a fair bit over a minute with way less than 60ml from 22-24g.

          Gushers tend to taste like #%^% (to me).

          Cheers

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          • #20
            16.1g dose (that's close to max for my 51mm basket), 25.3g yield over about 48secs of a Brazilian that I've fallen in love with named Rose Diamond. It's a very nice Brazilian that is nothing like your average coffee from that country. This batch is roasted slightly darker than I normally do as I roasted a larger batch and went a little too far. Still stopped short of 2C though, so it's a classic espresso roast (Full City/CS10). This espresso was very nice, but I will probably adjust the grind a touch to get about 24g out in about 35-40secs. This will be the sweet spot I reckon as it suits a shorter extraction to avoid over extracting it.

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            • #21
              Looks good. I can smell it from here. Sort of in between an espresso and ristretto, that is 1:1.5. That's the way I like it.

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              • #22
                Agree with you Paul - been playing around with brews like this for the last 6-8 months, after grinding a bit fine once, and watching the resulting brew drip down. Tasted like wow though!
                Now I have a good play around with the lever, like you, keeping it as slow as possible.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by barri View Post
                  I wonder what difference it would make if you used an 18gm VST basket instead.
                  Hey barri. Reason I go a size up is so my grinds don't spill out when grinding. I do have 18, 20 and 22g VSTs and I find different coffees may spill over despite being the same weight. I'm using a sette 270w btw.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by boontsien View Post
                    Hey barri. Reason I go a size up is so my grinds don't spill out when grinding. I do have 18, 20 and 22g VSTs and I find different coffees may spill over despite being the same weight. I'm using a sette 270w btw.
                    Is there no room to use a PF funnel with a Sette?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
                      Is there no room to use a PF funnel with a Sette?
                      There's isn't much room but don't have one to try. Saying that I have had very little mess. Have a artisan smith dosing cup with distributor on the way so that'll work even better

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                      • #26
                        Double ristretto procedures/stats

                        Funny thing; on my old Sunbeam 6910/450 setup I couldn't stand very reatricted shots. Anything over about 40 seconds was almost always astringent and unpleasantly overextracted; the giveaway was spots of oil on the surface of the shot as the crema started to collapse.

                        On my ECM setup I find restricted shots very pleasant and normally aim for about 35-45g from 22g depending on the bean, in up to 50 seconds including 10-15 of preinfusion (at line pressure now I'm running an under-bench filter). Haven't seen oil spots even on an almost choked shot when dialing in the Comandante.

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                        • #27
                          Just played with a longer brew time maintaining it at 1:1 ratio and went to about 32 seconds and the result was amazing with the Neli beans Full, sweet and no bitterness at all

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by boontsien View Post
                            Hey barri. Reason I go a size up is so my grinds don't spill out when grinding. I do have 18, 20 and 22g VSTs and I find different coffees may spill over despite being the same weight. I'm using a sette 270w btw.
                            With VSTs I prefer to go the other way. I'd rather put 17gms in a 15gm basket than in an 18gm basket provided I have an adequate amount of headroom below the screen even though it is recommended to stay within 1 gm of the basket size. Stuff recommendations!!!

                            Let us know how you get on with the Artisan smith stuff

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by barri View Post
                              What basket did you use? 54 seconds???? Drinkable???
                              it looks excellent, although nothing like a dubriz, but more like chocolate milk. hope it tasted awesome though

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                              • #30
                                Uuuugh... I could so go a double ristretto right now... but it's like 10:34pm... dagnabbit! XD

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