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  • Sloppy puck

    G'day guys

    Sorry if this is obvious or had been asked before.

    I have a sunbeam em7000 and a breville smart grinder both 2 years old.
    I use 18g of freshly ground beans in a double shot basket, stir them with a pin and draw out about 40ml for 30 secs

    Anyway, my puck always ends up sloppy and when I remove the portafilter gets stuck the the grouphead

    Can you guys think of anything I might be doing wrong or things I can do do stop it getting so sloppy and stuck?

    Cheers!
    Last edited by science-teacher; 22 August 2017, 01:46 PM.

  • #2
    IT may only be me, but i have recently been using a new grinder and while getting use to it I have been trying all sorts of grinds, more coarse and some fine and everything in between. While doing so I have also found i have been getting some wet/watery pucks. My view on why is because i was grinding to fine, which after a few shots would make to tamp a little softer as i was fearful some shots would struggle to come through.

    I guess i should ask based on this, how hard do you tamp and is it consistent with what you always do. As i feel when i dont tamp firm enough, i seem to get some watery pucks.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by science-teacher View Post
      G'day guys

      Sorry if this is obvious or had been asked before.

      I have a sunbeam em7000 and a breville smart grinder both 2 years old.
      I use 18g of freshly ground beans in a double shot basket, stir them with a pin and draw out about 40ml for 30 secs

      Anyway, my puck always ends up sloppy and when I remove the portafilter gets stuck the the machine

      Can you guys think of anything I might be doing wrong or things I can do do stop it getting so sloppy and stuck?

      Cheers!

      Hi,

      i believe you may be grinding too fine which is why the puck ends up more soggy and also explains your slow pour.

      For a double shot you should be extracting 60ml in 30 secs for an 18g double shot.

      The fact you are extracting only 40 ml in 30 secs would suggest your grind is on the fine side.

      Try grinding a bit coarser and see how you go.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by science-teacher View Post
        G'day guys

        Sorry if this is obvious or had been asked before.

        I have a sunbeam em7000 and a breville smart grinder both 2 years old.
        I use 18g of freshly ground beans in a double shot basket, stir them with a pin and draw out about 40ml for 30 secs

        Anyway, my puck always ends up sloppy and when I remove the portafilter gets stuck the the machine

        Can you guys think of anything I might be doing wrong or things I can do do stop it getting so sloppy and stuck?

        Cheers!
        How does the coffee taste? There's not necessarily a problem with extracting 40mls in 30 seconds (some prefer that). What you describe is certainly commonly associated with too fine a grind, but be wary of fixing a sloppy puck, and ending up with a less enjoyable coffee. Change one thing at a time, and let your taste buds as well as your eyes inform your next move.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gabster View Post
          Hi,

          i believe you may be grinding too fine which is why the puck ends up more soggy and also explains your slow pour.

          For a double shot you should be extracting 60ml in 30 secs for an 18g double shot.

          The fact you are extracting only 40 ml in 30 secs would suggest your grind is on the fine side.

          Try grinding a bit coarser and see how you go.
          Hey
          It tastes fine but I don't think i know what good vs bad coffee tasted like.
          I was under the assumption that espresso was meant to be a 1:2 ratio, so shouldn't 18g of coffee yield me 36 ml of coffee? Or am I incorrect?
          Thanks

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
            How does the coffee taste? There's not necessarily a problem with extracting 40mls in 30 seconds (some prefer that). What you describe is certainly commonly associated with too fine a grind, but be wary of fixing a sloppy puck, and ending up with a less enjoyable coffee. Change one thing at a time, and let your taste buds as well as your eyes inform your next move.
            I don't consider myself familiar enough with coffee to really be able to tell if it tasted good or bad
            I'm under the impression it would under extract if i coarse up the grind
            The extraction dial is perfect and goes to 'too low' when I make it coarser, and I was udner the impression that a 1:2 ratio for g--> ml was ideal?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gabster View Post
              Hi,

              i believe you may be grinding too fine which is why the puck ends up more soggy and also explains your slow pour.

              For a double shot you should be extracting 60ml in 30 secs for an 18g double shot.

              Try grinding a bit coarser and see how you go.
              I was under the impression that espresso should be a 1:2 ratio, shouldnt that mean 18g should yield me 36 ml esspresso? Cheers

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by coffeechris View Post
                IT may only be me, but i have recently been using a new grinder and while getting use to it I have been trying all sorts of grinds, more coarse and some fine and everything in between. While doing so I have also found i have been getting some wet/watery pucks. My view on why is because i was grinding to fine, which after a few shots would make to tamp a little softer as i was fearful some shots would struggle to come through.

                I guess i should ask based on this, how hard do you tamp and is it consistent with what you always do. As i feel when i dont tamp firm enough, i seem to get some watery pucks.
                G'day
                The EM7000 has an extraction dial that says this grind (5/60) on the breville grinder gets the right pressure extraction and if I do it much courser it the dial goes to underextracted.
                I tamp consistently with just enough pressure for the bench to push back.
                Thanks for your help, what are your ideas based on that?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by science-teacher View Post
                  I don't consider myself familiar enough with coffee to really be able to tell if it tasted good or bad
                  I'm under the impression it would under extract if i coarse up the grind
                  The extraction dial is perfect and goes to 'too low' when I make it coarser, and I was udner the impression that a 1:2 ratio for g--> ml was ideal?
                  1:2 ratio by mass is the standard. grams to mills is fine if you're talking about water. But brewed coffee produces crema, which is less dense than water.

                  So 18g of ground coffee = 36g of brewed coffee (as per the 'standard') = somewhere between 50-70 mls of brewed coffee including crema.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1ml coffee does not equal 1g. The old measure is 60ml for a double (including crema), the new measure is grams in and grams out. Also 1:2 is the ballpark, use it to get you close but then move with taste. Different beans, different roasts, different people, and different combinations of the three will all need different extraction ratios and time taken.

                    Always go by taste rather than the numbers (in terms of what is right, use the numbers liberally to get close etc). If you don't know what tastes good go taste more coffee. Find a recommendation on the appropriate geographic part of the cafe recommendations at the bottom of the forum front page. Find people you trust and get recommendations from them. Go taste! And then go home and compare. See if you can figure out which bits of the taste you do and don't like, and then play with your home coffee and see if you can get more/less of the good/bad. Most importantly, enjoy yourself and your coffee along the way. One of the best things that will help is if you can learn what different tastes are called, and by that I mean learn the language of coffee so that you can accurately describe what you are tasting and interpret other people's instructions. Learn it like you would any language, one word, term, or phrase at a time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                      1:2 ratio by mass is the standard. grams to mills is fine if you're talking about water. But brewed coffee produces crema, which is less dense than water.

                      So 18g of ground coffee = 36g of brewed coffee (as per the 'standard') = somewhere between 50-70 mls of brewed coffee including crema.
                      I understand, so try coarsening the grind and get to maybe 60ml in 30 secs
                      I find even now I think my shot might be blonding early, by then I reckon itll be nearly translucent?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                        1ml coffee does not equal 1g. The old measure is 60ml for a double (including crema), the new measure is grams in and grams out. Also 1:2 is the ballpark, use it to get you close but then move with taste. Different beans, different roasts, different people, and different combinations of the three will all need different extraction ratios and time taken.

                        Always go by taste rather than the numbers (in terms of what is right, use the numbers liberally to get close etc). If you don't know what tastes good go taste more coffee. Find a recommendation on the appropriate geographic part of the cafe recommendations at the bottom of the forum front page. Find people you trust and get recommendations from them. Go taste! And then go home and compare. See if you can figure out which bits of the taste you do and don't like, and then play with your home coffee and see if you can get more/less of the good/bad. Most importantly, enjoy yourself and your coffee along the way. One of the best things that will help is if you can learn what different tastes are called, and by that I mean learn the language of coffee so that you can accurately describe what you are tasting and interpret other people's instructions. Learn it like you would any language, one word, term, or phrase at a time.
                        Hey mate, since I'm such a novice with tastes (and plan to improve) what would your base recommendation be?
                        maybe go to the 60ml part including crema within 30 secs with a coarser grind?
                        I'm worried it's blonding way too early but I plan to explore that more once I get a naked portafilter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by science-teacher View Post
                          I understand, so try coarsening the grind and get to maybe 60ml in 30 secs
                          I find even now I think my shot might be blonding early, by then I reckon itll be nearly translucent?
                          If you grind more coarsely (and hold everything else equal) you will extract more coffee before you hit the blonding point. Whether that happens in less time is a bit harder to say.

                          But again, just change one thing at a time, slowly. And enjoy the coffee along the way.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sloppy puck

                            Originally posted by science-teacher View Post
                            Hey mate, since I'm such a novice with tastes (and plan to improve) what would your base recommendation be?
                            maybe go to the 60ml part including crema within 30 secs with a coarser grind?
                            I'm worried it's blonding way too early but I plan to explore that more once I get a naked portafilter
                            Hey Science-Teacher,

                            One very easy experiment would be to grind courser and see if the sloppy puck disappears.

                            As mentioned above, this advice is sound, use your taste to decide what is right. I know this sounds hard at first and we often look to processes and figures to fix things. Using weight and timing shots is great for gaining consistency(this helps to make sure when you change something you don't change the other factors).

                            I generally keep my dose the same say 18g, I pull a shot if it looks like it's reasonable I'll taste it(you should taste any shots you make to help build up a memory of what kind of shots taste like), if it tastes sour(makes your lips pucker) then grind finer, if it tastes bitter(makes your throat close) grind courser. The other thing to keep constant(experiment first though) is the amount of coffee you are extracting, pull a few shots at say 1:1.5, 1:2, and 1:2.5 ratios this will give you a ballpark of what that particular coffee should taste like when extracted well(you may even need to try different ratios), but choose the one you like the taste of best. Lastly adjust the extraction time(short will be strong, long will be weaker) by fine adjustments on the grinder, be careful not to change your chosen ratio.

                            I have found that some coffee when extracted leaves a wetter puck and others a drier puck, I think that density of different coffee's has something to do with it. Also try different amounts in the filter basket, less will generally produce a wet puck, more a drier puck, but don't get hung up on the idea that a wet puck is always a bad thing. Most important is that you're extracting everything you can from that puck(edit* extracting the best from that puck). This means getting your recipe correct, and making sure your distribution and tamping process is consistent and effective.

                            All the best it sounds like you're doing really well, just keep experimenting and ultimately enjoy what you're doing.
                            Last edited by Jono_Willmer; 21 August 2017, 10:26 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jono_Willmer View Post
                              Most important is that you're extracting everything you can from that puck.
                              I like everything else you said but this could be confusing if someone took it literally. There are soluble parts of every coffee that you absolutely do not want in your cup. Get all the good bits, leave the rest.

                              Comment

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