Others have mentioned that it might be the capacitor; electrical side of things I don't understand that much, so I won't go there. I thought it was like a light bulb, where it's either working or not working. My own studying on the topic is much needed.
You mentioned earlier that it's not the pin stopping you from dialing in finer. So I would like to double check, because although I mentioned it in earlier post, it is yet to be eliminated as a cause.
It is grinding fine up to a certain grind setting point, and anything finer beyond that point would stop the grinder. Anything that stops coffee grinds flowing out of the grinder add intended can be described as 'not working'.
Are you able to distinguish the difference between burrs jamming and grinder choking?
Choking is when there is too much fine powder inside, and for whatever reason (usually clumping) blockage stops the grind exiting. Grinder inside fills up, nothing coming out. If constipation continues, eventually grinder stops.
Jamming is when burrs are locked in place because there is a hard bean(s) wedged in between the burrs, and the motor cannot produce enough torque to break it and continue to rotate. This stops the whole machine. Some grinders, you can hear faint humming, others dead silent. Obviously, no sound because no movement, and no movement means no grinds coming out.
This jamming sometimes happens when you rotate the dial towards finer too quickly, and not incrementally enough. It also easily happens with the slightest of grinding adjustments (movement towards finer) made while the grinder is stationary.
You'll need at least 100g of beans for this.
So let the machine continually grind beans when you move the adjusting ring to finer (gradually). Before reaching your desired fineness, if it stops, check the following. A) do you hear the motor running? When it stopped, did it make any other sound? If you hear any sound, please describe. B) did the flow of the grind exiting stop at the same time or before the grinder came to a halt? C) from the moment it stopped working, and here please define 'stopped' as in grind not exiting or motor stopped. Here, mark the dial where it was, then move the dial back to coarser by quite a bit. Does that resume, or is it still stopped? D) if step C was a yes, movement resumed, do grinds flow out immediately from that point?
You see, that your grinder was working fine, dialed in at the shop; coupled with the fact that your beans are no where near under roasted, I cannot exclude operator error quite yet.
Depending on the detailed feedback of when and how it fails, we can guesstimate which components maybe at fault.
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Originally posted by MrJack View PostI'm going to go out on a limb and say your beans are underroasted.
The grinder is struggling because the beans are so tough. The pour is (way too) fast despite significant overdosing because:
a) you can't grind fine enough
b) there isn't enough soluble material / CO2 in the beans (both of which are produced during roasting) to slow the flowrate down.Beans are roasted to the verge of second crack, City+ to Full City. It has been a while since I roasted into second crack, but I believe this gave me problems as well. I will source some local beans and try again to eliminate this.Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View PostIt would certainly be worth eliminating the beans as the source of the problem (particularly given info provided in post #14 re the grinder working with Di Bella beans). Having said that, it would take a pretty severe under-roast to stop my old K3 from grinding.
I haven't removed the screw. It's not a physical stopper that's preventing me going finer, just the the grinder doesn't want to grind when I do get that fine...Originally posted by simonsk8r View PostHave been following this thread, and definitely what the guys said about the beans needs to be taken into account, but another thing occurred to me that I mentioned in another thread, have you unscrewed the grind adjustment 'stopper'?
That little silver cap if you pop that open/off, there's a screw in there which leads down and blocks up against something, this actually prevents you from going finer (it's a safety mechanism really so people didn't go too fine and destroyed the burrs), but it's necessary to actually unscrew that in order to go finer, has this been done?
I had to do this for my K3 Touch in order to adjust finer. Your grind does just seem a bit coarse, and if you're unable to go finer this may be it... otherwise it's another issue
Edit: but yeah, I'm not sure about different machines and pressure buildup, but that also does seem a little slow to get up to 8 bar.. it may be a combination of issues, but the guys here are awesome so hopefully we can nut this out!
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Have been following this thread, and definitely what the guys said about the beans needs to be taken into account, but another thing occurred to me that I mentioned in another thread, have you unscrewed the grind adjustment 'stopper'?
That little silver cap if you pop that open/off, there's a screw in there which leads down and blocks up against something, this actually prevents you from going finer (it's a safety mechanism really so people didn't go too fine and destroyed the burrs), but it's necessary to actually unscrew that in order to go finer, has this been done?
I had to do this for my K3 Touch in order to adjust finer. Your grind does just seem a bit coarse, and if you're unable to go finer this may be it... otherwise it's another issue
Edit: but yeah, I'm not sure about different machines and pressure buildup, but that also does seem a little slow to get up to 8 bar.. it may be a combination of issues, but the guys here are awesome so hopefully we can nut this out!
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It would certainly be worth eliminating the beans as the source of the problem (particularly given info provided in post #14 re the grinder working with Di Bella beans). Having said that, it would take a pretty severe under-roast to stop my old K3 from grinding.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say your beans are underroasted.
The grinder is struggling because the beans are so tough. The pour is (way too) fast despite significant overdosing because:
a) you can't grind fine enough
b) there isn't enough soluble material / CO2 in the beans (both of which are produced during roasting) to slow the flowrate down.
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In the second video, can the faint whirring be heard? Would a capacitor issue cause this??Originally posted by level3ninja View PostIt's obvious from the difference between the first and second picture that the puck is pressing into the shower screen, I can see the pattern of it around the 5c coin.
This cannot be properly fixed without grinding finer and dosing lower. Reminds me of my first Breville Smart Grinder that was too coarse out of the box. There were things I could do to improve the shot, but nothing really fixed it until I shimmed the grinder. I was amazed how much less coffee I need to pack into the basket. As offers have said it might be the capacitor on the grinder motor. If you're handy with a soldering iron this will be the cheapest, quickest, and easiest fix. Even if it turns out not to be an issue it'll only have cost you a couple of dollars.
I don't have any magic answers as to what needs to be done to your grinder, but from your photos and the extremely fast running shot in your video something is quite amiss.
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Machine sits at 0bar while idling.
In that shot the pressure very slowly climbed. Reached about 4bar, then I took the cup away. I left the shot running into the drip tray until the shot ran basically clear and the pressure continued to climb slowly until 8bar.
This sounds very low?
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It's obvious from the difference between the first and second picture that the puck is pressing into the shower screen, I can see the pattern of it around the 5c coin.Originally posted by David8 View Post
This cannot be properly fixed without grinding finer and dosing lower. Reminds me of my first Breville Smart Grinder that was too coarse out of the box. There were things I could do to improve the shot, but nothing really fixed it until I shimmed the grinder. I was amazed how much less coffee I need to pack into the basket. As offers have said it might be the capacitor on the grinder motor. If you're handy with a soldering iron this will be the cheapest, quickest, and easiest fix. Even if it turns out not to be an issue it'll only have cost you a couple of dollars.
I don't have any magic answers as to what needs to be done to your grinder, but from your photos and the extremely fast running shot in your video something is quite amiss.
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I cannot go finer, this is my problem.Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View PostLooks overdosed and too coarse. The overdose may be causing the puck to fracture (though not obvious from 4th pic)
I'll get back to you on this.Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View PostWhat is the pressure gauge on the left of your machine measuring? Where does that sit when idling?
YesOriginally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View PostMight be a capacitor problem on the grinder. I take it that the burrs have been removed and refitted (from the location of the silver knob on the adjustment collar you'd be miles away from the espresso zone on my k3
Pretty sure...Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post....but I appreciate that not all are set up the same). Are you sure they are 'flush'?
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Looks overdosed and too coarse. The overdose may be causing the puck to fracture (though not obvious from 4th pic)
What is the pressure gauge on the left of your machine measuring? Where does that sit when idling?
Might be a capacitor problem on the grinder. I take it that the burrs have been removed and refitted (from the location of the silver knob on the adjustment collar you'd be miles away from the espresso zone on my k3....but I appreciate that not all are set up the same). Are you sure they are 'flush'?Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 22 October 2017, 01:06 PM.
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Just as a reference point, this is my standard 20g dose in my 18g VST:
And this is a 22g dose in my 18g VST basket, same grind setting (which at 22g would probably not quite choke the shot completely, but there would be maybe 10-12 drops in 30s, completely burnt shot):
Yes 10mm vertical sides on the Pullman Barista tamper. Machine is a Breville BES920. Don't know the shower screen depth off the top of my head, but I think I remember reading it's relatively high compared to more traditional machines like E61s.
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Out of interest does the Pullman tamper have a 10mm high piston?Originally posted by level3ninjaJust add a reference point, this is my standard 20g dose in my 18g VST:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]17379[/ATTACH]
what machine are you using? Do you know the shower screen depth of the machine?
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I'm not one to speak in absolutes, but that can't not be too high!
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