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Bloody Doughnut!

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  • Bloody Doughnut!

    Hi all. I’m settling in to ownership of my Bezzera BZ10 and Sette 270W and am happy to be in the ballpark. I’m yielding a solid 2:1 shot that most of the time tastes great. The rest is ok, but could be better.

    I recently bought a naked PF to help with the diagnosis, which has confirmed what I thought was happening. I’m consistently getting a doughnut extraction like in the video. Looking at the puck afterwards, there are pinholes at the side to indicate channeling.

    I’ve played with grind amounts and have settled on 17.5g in the standard 16g Bezzera basket. Any less and it’s sloppy, plus I have a hard time levelling it as it sits below the surface of the basket. Any more and it’s on the screen.

    I’m starting to think my tamp is too small for my basket - 58mm tamp for a 58.94mm basket.

    Before I go and spend more money, I’d love to hear some advice on which way to tackle this. Work on my tamp to try get the edges compacted better? Get a new tamp? Buy a new basket? My tamp is a Clean Machine, flat bottom with square edges, 58mm tamp. Any tips?



    https://youtu.be/mhQUXWeIxts

  • #2
    Looks like old/stale coffee to me. Get some known freshly roasted coffee that's been stored properly and try it again after the beans have rested for 4 days or so.


    Java "Amazing what fresh beans will get'cha!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Puck doesn't look quite right. Maybe still some underdosing? Looks like there is a sign of a little water on the puck?

      Cheers

      Antony
      www.casaespresso.com.au

      Comment


      • #4
        Firstly, thanks for the replies [emoji4]

        Originally posted by Javaphile View Post
        Looks like old/stale coffee to me. Get some known freshly roasted coffee that's been stored properly and try it again after the beans have rested for 4 days or so.


        Java "Amazing what fresh beans will get'cha!" phile
        I’ll try some fresher beans. The beans used were roasted on 13/10, medium Merlo Roast (Forza). I buy 500g at a time and split it into two bags with the one way valves (the bags the beans are supplied with). These bags are kept inside a small cooler bag, and it lives at the bottom of my pantry. This way the light is kept out each time the door is opened.

        Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
        Puck doesn't look quite right. Maybe still some underdosing? Looks like there is a sign of a little water on the puck?

        Cheers

        Antony
        www.casaespresso.com.au
        There is a little water on the puck when I remove it. I’ll try going up again, but this time in smaller increments. Until now I’ve been jumping 0.5g at a time.

        Comment


        • #5
          Puck should be dry when you remove the handle.

          Its OK for the coffee to touch the shower screen, obviously though not too much that the handle is hard to insert

          cheers

          Antony
          www.casaespresso.com.au

          Comment


          • #6
            Coffee should be fine. Could the pressure be set a bit too high?
            Does it have an adjustable OPV?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
              I’ll try some fresher beans. The beans used were roasted on 13/10, medium Merlo Roast (Forza). I buy 500g at a time and split it into two bags with the one way valves (the bags the beans are supplied with). These bags are kept inside a small cooler bag, and it lives at the bottom of my pantry. This way the light is kept out each time the door is opened.
              Hhhhmmm.....Those beans should be good. Your extraction looks to be going too fast with the pour blonding way to early. Have you tried grinding finer there-by stretching the extraction time? If not try fining up the grind until the pour lasts 30 seconds before the stream blonds. Once you get it to that point then adjust the grind/time until the extraction tastes best.

              To determine how high the basket should be filled with coffee do the 5 cent test. Fill the basket and tamp the coffee until when you put a nickle on top of the puck and tighten the portafilter in the machine (Do not turn the pump on!) the nickle leaves a slight impression in the puck.


              Java "Pour what?" phile
              Toys! I must have new toys!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Just bought some fresh beans and had a quick play. Same blend, roasted 20/10.

                Went a little finer on the grind, up dosed to 18.1g. No impression on the 5c test. Probably the most even shot I’ve pulled so far, but was a little slow and in between a espresso and ristretto. Tasted goood, but not quite there.

                https://youtu.be/MJCOmP3BQ5c

                Comment


                • #9
                  Then tried same quantity with a very slightly coarser grind. Ratio was where I want it, but didn’t look as even as the one before.

                  https://youtu.be/sKevLFzTXzk

                  I should point out that both had wet pucks, but not sloppy.

                  So then I tried with the same grind setting, adding 0.5g and doing the 5c test. The coin didn’t touch, but interestingly the sides of the puck made contact and stuck to the shower screen, leaving this little undisturbed island in the middle with the coin on top! So I think I may have found the problem?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If the puck is still wet you are maybe still under dosing, although your second last shot did look better.

                    Can you post a photo of the puck straight after the shot?

                    Cheers

                    Antony

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
                      If the puck is still wet you are maybe still under dosing, although your second last shot did look better.

                      Can you post a photo of the puck straight after the shot?

                      Cheers

                      Antony
                      I didn’t take a photo, bummer. I’m buzzing a little after the last few of pours, so will try again in the morning and take some after photos.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Javaphile View Post
                        Hhhhmmm.....Those beans should be good. Your extraction looks to be going too fast with the pour blonding way to early. Have you tried grinding finer there-by stretching the extraction time? If not try fining up the grind until the pour lasts 30 seconds before the stream blonds. Once you get it to that point then adjust the grind/time until the extraction tastes best.

                        To determine how high the basket should be filled with coffee do the 5 cent test. Fill the basket and tamp the coffee until when you put a nickle on top of the puck and tighten the portafilter in the machine (Do not turn the pump on!) the nickle leaves a slight impression in the puck.


                        Java "Pour what?" phile
                        I haven't heard that advice put in that way before. Saving it for when I'm tinkering with extractions again.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
                          Puck should be dry when you remove the handle.

                          Its OK for the coffee to touch the shower screen, obviously though not too much that the handle is hard to insert

                          cheers

                          Antony
                          www.casaespresso.com.au
                          Hmm not too sure if the coffee should be touching the screen upon locking in..? Wouldn't that disrupt the integrity of the level puck you've just made?

                          Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
                          Hi all. I’m settling in to ownership of my Bezzera BZ10 and Sette 270W and am happy to be in the ballpark. I’m yielding a solid 2:1 shot that most of the time tastes great. The rest is ok, but could be better.

                          I recently bought a naked PF to help with the diagnosis, which has confirmed what I thought was happening. I’m consistently getting a doughnut extraction like in the video. Looking at the puck afterwards, there are pinholes at the side to indicate channeling.

                          I’ve played with grind amounts and have settled on 17.5g in the standard 16g Bezzera basket. Any less and it’s sloppy, plus I have a hard time levelling it as it sits below the surface of the basket. Any more and it’s on the screen.

                          I’m starting to think my tamp is too small for my basket - 58mm tamp for a 58.94mm basket.

                          Before I go and spend more money, I’d love to hear some advice on which way to tackle this. Work on my tamp to try get the edges compacted better? Get a new tamp? Buy a new basket? My tamp is a Clean Machine, flat bottom with square edges, 58mm tamp. Any tips?



                          https://youtu.be/mhQUXWeIxts
                          The first pour did seem a bit fast, that was good you fined up the grind, the second pour looked heaps better. And to me it's fine if the pour doesn't start out central, but come together into the centre eventually (the sooner the better obviously).

                          Was wondering what your distribution is like when dosing Azzabee? It's often overlooked as being a factor with all sorts of things put in front of it as a priority, but it's pretty important I think how evenly the grounds are distributed in the basket. If you lump too much coffee into the centre of the basket and tamp it's going to be much more dense in the middle, causing a donut extraction. Even though it looks even after you tamp it doesn't necessarily mean it is on the inside. But your extractions are definitely looking better I reckon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
                            Then tried same quantity with a very slightly coarser grind. Ratio was where I want it, but didn’t look as even as the one before.

                            https://youtu.be/sKevLFzTXzk

                            I should point out that both had wet pucks, but not sloppy.

                            So then I tried with the same grind setting, adding 0.5g and doing the 5c test. The coin didn’t touch, but interestingly the sides of the puck made contact and stuck to the shower screen, leaving this little undisturbed island in the middle with the coin on top! So I think I may have found the problem?
                            Ah and yeah that's bizarre.. is the tamper you're using a convex one or a normal flat one?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by simonsk8r View Post

                              Was wondering what your distribution is like when dosing Azzabee?
                              I’ve been using a little side tap to get the pyramid to settle to the sides a bit, then a strike off to get it nice and level.

                              Comment

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