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  • #16
    Originally posted by simonsk8r View Post
    Ah and yeah that's bizarre.. is the tamper you're using a convex one or a normal flat one?
    The tamp is flat, it’s this one...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Azzabee View Post

      So then I tried with the same grind setting, adding 0.5g and doing the 5c test. The coin didn’t touch, but interestingly the sides of the puck made contact and stuck to the shower screen, leaving this little undisturbed island in the middle with the coin on top!
      You pulled the shot with the coin in situ?????

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
        I’ve been using a little side tap to get the pyramid to settle to the sides a bit, then a strike off to get it nice and level.
        Ah ok cool, that sounds like it should get it fairly even. Also best to make sure you're dosing a consistent amount of coffee each time, if you do a strike off you're removing coffee from the total dose, so just keeping it consistent as possible is key (not everyone weighs how much they've dosed, but it can help in this situation, though it sounds like you've been weighing anyways).

        I'd recommend keeping all variables consistent and playing with each one at a time. So you can keep the coffee, grind level, and dose consistent and just play around with altering distribution, or change up something else instead. Just to eliminate each variable from the process, then you can figure out if it's the machine, grinder or ze barista!

        But overall they're looking better, but other variables to consider altering are shot time (not letting it run as long), flow rate (closer to ristretto or even), brew ratio (1:2, 1:1.5, 1:2.5 etc). But one thing at a time for sure, am keen to hear how you go!
        Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
        The tamp is flat, it’s this one...

        Ah right, was just strange how the sides of the puck were sticking to the screen, made me think it was maybe a convex tamp!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by simonsk8r View Post
          Hmm not too sure if the coffee should be touching the screen upon locking in..? Wouldn't that disrupt the integrity of the level puck you've just made?

          The first pour did seem a bit fast, that was good you fined up the grind, the second pour looked heaps better. And to me it's fine if the pour doesn't start out central, but come together into the centre eventually (the sooner the better obviously).

          Was wondering what your distribution is like when dosing Azzabee? It's often overlooked as being a factor with all sorts of things put in front of it as a priority, but it's pretty important I think how evenly the grounds are distributed in the basket. If you lump too much coffee into the centre of the basket and tamp it's going to be much more dense in the middle, causing a donut extraction. Even though it looks even after you tamp it doesn't necessarily mean it is on the inside. But your extractions are definitely looking better I reckon
          +1 on the above.

          If you dose 17.5 to 18 grams, I am surprised that the stock basket really holds that much. Perhaps the machines for the Australian market come with deeper baskets? Mine is rated for 14 grams and it doesn’t hold much more.

          The stock basket (mine at least) is tapered, so depending on how much you dose the tamper will leave slightly more or less clearance. Low pressure preinfusion on the BZ10 is fairly brief and not controllable, so it is fairly sensitive to dosing and distribution issues. Perhaps a tamper that fits more snug will improve things.

          Probably needless to say, but I assume you side-tap the PF before tamping? Do NOT side-tap after tamping, because that may very well weaken the seal characteristics of the coffee bed at the perimeter and cause channeling.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Yelta View Post
            You pulled the shot with the coin in situ?????
            No, I’m a rookie, but not a noob!

            Comment


            • #21
              When I first bought the machine and did a heap of reading, I was consistently reading 14g is the amount for this machine. But I think they supply different baskets. Mine has 16g stamped on the side. And putting 16g into it leaves it well below the top. I played with different amounts from 14-19g, anything under 18 is sloppy/wet.

              This morning I tried 18.8 first up. Here’s the puck


              I noticed the puck drier, but convex looking with a slight imprint of the screen on the surface, confirming my last 5c test that caught the edge. Taste was ok, a little sharp with a slight burnt flavour. Still a doughnut first up.

              Dropped to 18.4g, slightly better but a bigger channel. I blame operator error here. Still slightly convex looking. Tasted similar to first, but a little smoother. Again, another doughnut.


              Third I dropped to 18.1g. Bloody doughnut! But tasted the best. The puck was wet on top, but held together ok. Small pinholes around the edge again.



              I think I need a new shower screen?

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              • #22
                I know the grinds swell with water but some of the top grinds look very coarse.
                Have you tried (begged / borrowed) a second grinder?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Agree...

                  Looks way too coarse to me too.
                  Suggest lowering your dose to, say 16g, and fine up the grind such that you "choke" the BZ10; then carefully coarsen the grind until you start to see signs of the coffee liquor coming through. Keep at it until you get the requisite volume in the cup and it tastes like you expect it to.

                  You can worry about playing with dose size after you have this down pat...

                  Mal.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
                    When I first bought the machine and did a heap of reading, I was consistently reading 14g is the amount for this machine. But I think they supply different baskets. Mine has 16g stamped on the side. And putting 16g into it leaves it well below the top. I played with different amounts from 14-19g, anything under 18 is sloppy/wet.

                    This morning I tried 18.8 first up. Here’s the puck


                    I noticed the puck drier, but convex looking with a slight imprint of the screen on the surface, confirming my last 5c test that caught the edge. Taste was ok, a little sharp with a slight burnt flavour. Still a doughnut first up.

                    Dropped to 18.4g, slightly better but a bigger channel. I blame operator error here. Still slightly convex looking. Tasted similar to first, but a little smoother. Again, another doughnut.


                    Third I dropped to 18.1g. Bloody doughnut! But tasted the best. The puck was wet on top, but held together ok. Small pinholes around the edge again.



                    I think I need a new shower screen?
                    To be honest I wouldn't be overly worried with how the puck looks after the extraction. To think of the intense pressure that goes through the puck it's not going to look perfect afterwards, and even pinholes I've been told are not an issue. 'Puckology' I believe people call it (studying the spent puck afterwards) has been dismissed by many people. I've had pucks with pinholes galore at times but the shot has tasted sensational.

                    Perhaps someone else with more experience could weigh in here regarding spent pucks and whether it really matters much at all? Even a slightly wet puck isn't an issue I reckon, some coffees work better at lower doses, how the extraction looks (colouring, evenness of pour) and tastes seems to be a better guide.

                    But there definitely can seem to be an over emphasis on process and not outcome, using taste as the guide has been very welcomed advice many have given me!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                      Agree...

                      Looks way too coarse to me too.
                      Suggest lowering your dose to, say 16g, and fine up the grind such that you "choke" the BZ10; then carefully coarsen the grind until you start to see signs of the coffee liquor coming through. Keep at it until you get the requisite volume in the cup and it tastes like you expect it to.

                      You can worry about playing with dose size after you have this down pat...

                      Mal.
                      +1 to this, definitely good advice, I believe Matt Perger listed a great summary on his blog, that it's best to keep dose and yield constant, change only the grind fineness to change the timing of when this yield occurs. Only use dose changes to get more or less liquid but best not to overly focus on it for taste changes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks for the advice all, much appreciated.

                        Will go back and play with grind a little more and see what happens. One thing I will add, with the grind at the current setting I’m only lightly tamping. So I imagine an even finer grind will mean dropping the weight of the tamp and then taking it out.
                        Would you suggest splitting the grind in 2 - half dose, then tap down, second half, level and tamp?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Make sure you’re wearing appropriate casual and comfortable footwear (and preferably a pair of ‘barista socks’). Take your watch off so you don’t have any excess weight on one of your wrists that could upset your Balance. Have a towel either over one shoulder or tucked into your belt or a pocket. When you tamp make sure you have your elbow straight up in the air then get down and eyeball it to make sure it’s level. Go through your normal routine then whip that portafilter out at the end of the extraction and get an exact reading of how wet the puck is by measuring with a moisture meter. Tip the shot down the drain, but if the wetness of the puck was just right then be happy in the knowledge that it would’ve tasted good.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
                            Make sure you’re wearing appropriate casual and comfortable footwear (and preferably a pair of ‘barista socks’). Take your watch off so you don’t have any excess weight on one of your wrists that could upset your Balance. Have a towel either over one shoulder or tucked into your belt or a pocket. When you tamp make sure you have your elbow straight up in the air then get down and eyeball it to make sure it’s level. Go through your normal routine then whip that portafilter out at the end of the extraction and get an exact reading of how wet the puck is by measuring with a moisture meter. Tip the shot down the drain, but if the wetness of the puck was just right then be happy in the knowledge that it would’ve tasted good.
                            Ha! Ok ok, I get it. K.I.S.S.

                            Almost sounds like batting advice - nice high elbow, eye over the ball..!

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                            • #29
                              The surface of the puck is level with the ridge of the basket. If/when the puck swells wont it rise up the wall of the basket and create a gap between the basket wall and puck wall as it meets/passes the ridge? not sure- just a thought. Water lurrrvs gaps.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Azzabee View Post
                                Thanks for the advice all, much appreciated.

                                Will go back and play with grind a little more and see what happens. One thing I will add, with the grind at the current setting I’m only lightly tamping. So I imagine an even finer grind will mean dropping the weight of the tamp and then taking it out.
                                Would you suggest splitting the grind in 2 - half dose, then tap down, second half, level and tamp?
                                To be honest I wouldn't even worry about tamp pressure as being a variable, it's far too inconsistent and subject to human error to recreate the exact light pressure tamp every time... people have definitely done it but it just adds another unnecessary variable to me... I would tamp hard until the coffee is fully compressed, and only to the point where there is resistance and it obviously can't compress anymore. That's really really easy and so repeatable. Tamp until the puck pushes back at you, at that point you can't compress it anymore so it's easy to get used to that point. Only further down the track experiment with light tamping if you'd like I reckon, I never had success with it but would like to experiment with it. But up to you!

                                Edit: ah and as for dosing, I usually dose about half, two collapses, then dose rest etc nowadays, is working well. But whatever works for you and is repeatable and consistent.


                                Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
                                Make sure you’re wearing appropriate casual and comfortable footwear (and preferably a pair of ‘barista socks’). Take your watch off so you don’t have any excess weight on one of your wrists that could upset your Balance. Have a towel either over one shoulder or tucked into your belt or a pocket. When you tamp make sure you have your elbow straight up in the air then get down and eyeball it to make sure it’s level. Go through your normal routine then whip that portafilter out at the end of the extraction and get an exact reading of how wet the puck is by measuring with a moisture meter. Tip the shot down the drain, but if the wetness of the puck was just right then be happy in the knowledge that it would’ve tasted good.
                                Hahahaha ah Leroy, cheeky but the point got across haha.. definitely keeping things simple was also advice I've appreciated through the years

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