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  • #16
    Yelta, a frequent problem is that people "buy a business" without any qualification in that field except the ability to get a bank loan and the desire to make a buck.
    I see this all the time locally where business owners from diverse fields confuse their love of a cup of coffee with actually knowing anything about the Cafe/coffee trade.
    Often they take over an outlet, the experienced older staff disappear to be replaced by inexperienced teenagers and the quality of the coffee drops overnight. Next thing the business is struggling and they are blaming the economy, competition, costs etc.
    You can't help them because they won't listen to advice. They ran a successful Pet Shop therefore they can run anything successfully.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Rocky View Post
      Yelta, a frequent problem is that people "buy a business" without any qualification in that field except the ability to get a bank loan and the desire to make a buck.
      I see this all the time locally where business owners from diverse fields confuse their love of a cup of coffee with actually knowing anything about the Cafe/coffee trade.
      Often they take over an outlet, the experienced older staff disappear to be replaced by inexperienced teenagers and the quality of the coffee drops overnight. Next thing the business is struggling and they are blaming the economy, competition, costs etc.
      You can't help them because they won't listen to advice. They ran a successful Pet Shop therefore they can run anything successfully.
      Very true Rocky, seems to more prevalent in regional area's.

      We have 13 places in the main street of Moonta claim to serve espresso, none of em can pull a shot worth a damn.

      Tried the newest a couple of days back (been open a month) the owner admitted to me mine was the second request he had for a double shot in the month he had been open, Moonta is a very staid town, British heritage, most here still drink tea, in fact the person I just mentioned told me most of his business is making tea.

      As you say they are not interested in advice, in fact the exact opposite, I also suspect many of them are locked into machine/coffee bean type contracts, pretty much anathema to good coffee.

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      • #18
        Yeah, I wondered about the 'supply contract' and whether some places have signed contracts that oblige them to take a certain quantity of bean each month. It is the only explanation (other than stupidity) for lots of unsold stale bean on the shelves. Like any perishable commodity, you need to be constantly rotating stock.
        At one stage the work Social Club allowed Lavazza Blue to put a Capsule machine in the lunchroom. There was no rental on the machine but we had to take a certain number of capsules a month. Couldn't sell that many and eventually told them to take it out.

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        • #19
          It is usually the cheap bean suppliers that lock in those contracts that include machines.
          Mose coming through now at stupid price points. It’s not sustainable from a Roaster point of view unless you buy cheap beans

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          • #20
            Yeah Ronin, I must admit I have been wondering about the quality of the bean in more recent times. It used to be pretty good - not Coffee Snobs good - but better than average.
            Now it just doesn't seem to be as good as it was - even the coffee over the counter.
            I've just bought some fresh Costa Rican, which used to be my favourite bean from them. We'll see how it goes. If it doesn't pass muster it can go through the Dripolator for non-discriminating guests.
            I wouldn't have thought this Cafe would be involved in those bean/machine contracts - but who knows.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Rocky View Post
              I wouldn't have thought this Cafe would be involved in those bean/machine contracts - but who knows.
              The quest for the dollar can motivate people to make surprisingly poor decisions Rocky.

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              • #22
                Or to keep the cafes head above water. So much competition & if coffee isn’t a priority for then, cheaper deals can be done.

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                • #23
                  Agreed - the point at which a business changes hands is usually a critical moment for the business.
                  Depends on the strategy that the new owners want to follow.
                  Do they want to maintain a focus on quality or do they want to squeeze a bit more profit out.
                  Will squeezing a bit more profit out drop the quality, chase the quality customers away, and subsequently reduce the profit?
                  It's a decision they can make.
                  One thing I can tell you is that there are lots of average cafes around and very few really top notch ones. I would not be choosing to compete at the bottom of the market.
                  (the ones I see go bust quickly are all at the bottom end)

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                  • #24
                    In the industry there seems to be an inverse relationship between cafes asking for more "freebies" (machines, umbrellas, cups etc) and their business success. The more they ask for you know the less time they are going to stay in business.


                    Thank fully for everyone, the days of "on loan" machines are reducing, with most roasters really pulling back on who and what machines they give to customers (if any)

                    As someone in the industry its a crazy business model for the supplier

                    Cheers

                    Antony
                    www.casaespresso.com.au

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                    • #25
                      I roast for a few cafes locally. It’s a constant battle/discussion with them to convince them that raising their prices doesn’t = higher profit. Increasing quality and selling more coffees does! Your totally correct With the freebies Anthony. The cafes who have chosen the roaster who provides sugar, umbrellas, machines etc at a higher kg cost than me aren’t doing as well as the ones who work harder to provide quality coffee. I have to admit...... They do look fancy when they first open though!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Casa Espresso View Post
                        In the industry there seems to be an inverse relationship between cafes asking for more "freebies" (machines, umbrellas, cups etc) and their business success. The more they ask for you know the less time they are going to stay in business.


                        Thank fully for everyone, the days of "on loan" machines are reducing, with most roasters really pulling back on who and what machines they give to customers (if any)

                        As someone in the industry its a crazy business model for the supplier

                        Cheers

                        Antony
                        www.casaespresso.com.au
                        Arn't the biggest majority of machines rented or leased? Very few cafes and restaurants own their machines.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I had coffee in a sizeable (and obviously popular) local cafe yesterday. Not been in for years.
                          When the coffee came, I asked the waiter whether they normally do one or two shots in a Long Black in a small - 160ml - cup (I normally ask when I order as believe it or not, some do only one shot)
                          He said he would check with the Barista, which he did and said "two". I then asked what Brand of bean they used. He again said he'd ask, and came back with a nondescript No-name brown bag that did have "Jacobs Douwe Egberts" in tiny print on the bottom. I thanked him for all his trouble and when he collected the cups he asked how the coffee was.
                          I said I thought it was well made but that the bean was 'ordinary'. He suggested "A bit bitter" and I agreed, and added "Lacking body". He said "Thank you, I thought you would give me an honest opinion".
                          This was a big popular cafe and I doubt there are too many 'Coffee Snobs' among their clientele. An example of a cafe clearly aiming at the 'average punter' with no desire to stick it's head up above the crowd.
                          Now that's OK of course, every business gets to choose its niche. I looked around as I sat there and almost every other customer had a mug with a milk-based coffee in it.
                          I did wonder however, how much more per-cup they would need to charge to be able to use a better bean. (coffees were $3.90 ea)

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                          • #28
                            Well, this morning a mate and I went for a coffee in an upmarket cafe that uses a brand of bean that I like.
                            The coffee was good, not as good as it has been, but good enough.
                            I was interested to find that my Long Black came in a glass. Never had that before. I thought it was an interesting choice on the part of the Barista as I had just shown her the cup I wanted.
                            Chatting to her later she mentioned that she "didn't drink coffee". Not the first time I have run across this. Several young women on my TAFE Barista course said the same.
                            I am beginning to realise that the "Barista" role in local cafes is dominated by young women doing University study who once would have been waitresses but in the booming coffee age, are now "Baristas".

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