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  • Newbie trying to produce a drinkable long black

    Hi
    Earlier today I purchased a Profitec 700 to go with the Profitec T64 grinder I bought 3 months ago. So I now have excellent equipment but am totally inexperienced using an espresso machine. Previously have only used stove top Bialetti and plunger. Both of which made ok coffee.

    I now have much improved equipment but it is clearly beyond my current abilities. I have gone through a kilo of coffee beans trying to dial in the grinder. I seem to be on the right track but the coffee I am producing is so strong I cannot drink it. Web search seems to indicate my brew ratio (18g coffee producing around 25-30ml coffee in 25secs) is too strong. I understand I need to subsequently dilute the shot with boiling water for a long black but am befuddled as to relative quantities etc. I think [?] I first need to make a less intense shot but if I allow the extraction to go well beyond 25secs to get 35-40ml will I not end up getting unpleasant flavours?

    I know I am a sad case but would really appreciate some help from any sympathetic and kind hearted souls reading this tragic post....

    Thanks to anyone who can offer suggestions.

    Paul
    P.S. I have booked a barista course - but that is a very long four weeks away.

  • #2
    which coffee and how old?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Paul its like you swapped your pushbike for a Lamborghini so there will be a big learning curve.

      Rolf is on the money with which coffee and how old and I think this may be your problem. Try milder and fresh about week old roasted beans.

      Add water or milk to the double shot until your happy with the taste and don't worry too much what the exact ratio is meant to be.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm guessing you are using a double basket to get 18g of coffee in the basket Paul. Are you aiming to get 25-30ml of total coffee extracted per brew from the double basket? If so being a double shot basket you should be getting around 50-60ml TOTAL coffee volume, and could certainly explain why your coffee is very strong and undrinkable. 25-30ml is about what you should get per shot and a double basket makes 2 shots.

        If that's the case then you'll need to wind back your grinder settings quite a way courser to get the desired volume. I think doing the barista course is a great idea as well to help you get the best from your very nice equipment.

        Good luck with it!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Plane24 View Post
          Hi
          (18g coffee producing around 25-30ml coffee in 25secs) is too strong. I und.
          That sounds like a really constipated shot.

          Ease up the grind setting a bit, let it flow and aim for a total of 40 to 50 mL from both spouts combined.

          With a long Black don’t use totally boiling water but rather about 80C. You can get the temp down with a splash of tap water.

          Pour the shots over the top and try to run the streams down the sidewalk of the cup.

          This will float the shot on top and preserve the crema.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone. The coffee I am using was bought fresh yesterday. The problem is with the workman and he cannot blame his tools. I will adjust grind to be coarser as per you recommendations and see how I go. Will report back later.

            Thanks again!

            Comment


            • #7
              Some positive progress to report. After numerous attempts and another 500g of coffee I have got grind time of 6.9 secs producing 16.9g of ground coffee that produces 40ml in 24 secs. It even has crema! Brew ratio is now around 1:2.35 which seems to be in the right area at least.

              My wife has now banned any more grinding until this evening. Apparently she wants to watch the cricket without any intrusive background noise. Very selfish attitude if you ask me.....

              First observation: we newbies need to be told that grinder manufacturers are nasty people with warped senses of humour. They provide lovely great big dials on their machines that go from 1 to 10 but you end up tinkering with tiny, tiny changes between 7.25 and 7.75 for ages getting surprisingly different grinds. I was initially moving from 6.5 to 7.5 and wondering why I went from talcum powder to breadcrumbs.

              Second observation: I need to learn how to do this without making such a mess! Coffee grinds, spilt coffee, dribbles and mayhem from wall to wall. I used to think I was a reasonably tidy bloke but perhaps I was fooling myself.

              I will now devote the afternoon to the cricket and postpone actually making a cup of coffee until after dinner. With my luck it will probably be foul. But then again, maybe not. Fingers crossed.

              Thanks again to everyone who has offered me help. It is very much appreciated.

              Comment


              • #8
                Newbie trying to produce a drinkable long black

                Hi Paul.

                Hope it’s all going well.

                Keep on trying and you will get there. Plenty of helpful videos on YouTube as well to guide the way.

                When you bought the machine did they go through the basics / basic cleaning routine with you to ensure you keep a clean machine between / after shots?

                Do you have a knock box? Or a microfibre cloth or two along with a group head brush to help with the cleaning that’s part of espresso making fun?

                [emoji3]

                Here’s a video that may help ...

                [url]https://youtu.be/Jjfxr24iuuw[/url]

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Plane24 View Post
                  I have got grind time of 6.9 secs producing 16.9g of ground coffee that produces 40ml in 24 secs. It even has crema! Brew ratio is now around 1:2.35 which seems to be in the right area at least.
                  If that's 40ml including crema, it's unlikely it weighs 40g. I would recommend weighing the yield if you want to look at the ratio but don't stress about it too much. Have you tried a shot that results in a yield closer to 60ml including crema?

                  Originally posted by Plane24 View Post
                  First observation: we newbies need to be told that grinder manufacturers are nasty people with warped senses of humour. They provide lovely great big dials on their machines that go from 1 to 10 but you end up tinkering with tiny, tiny changes between 7.25 and 7.75 for ages getting surprisingly different grinds. I was initially moving from 6.5 to 7.5 and wondering why I went from talcum powder to breadcrumbs.
                  Doesn't the T64 have a worm drive adjustment mechanism? It must have taken you forever to adjust from 6.5 to 7.5! Did you make multiple coffees inbetween 6.5 and 7.5? The instruction manual says "Please use only small steps when adjusting the grind; only ½ turn of the adjuster."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Matt

                    I bought knock box, rubberised tamping pad and microfibre cloth with machine. A group head brush came with it but so far I have simply used a damp cloth to wipe underside of shower (?) head between shots. Group head brush has been useful only to scratch top of bald head while I puzzled over perplexing results. Have backflushing powder but suspect/hope I won’t need to use this after just 24 hours of ownership. Since I have barely tasted the eveil black stuff I’ve produced thus far the hygiene/cleanliness issues have not concerned me. The acid test comes after dinner tonight when I will try to recreate the double shot I produced this morning and add to hot water in cups to make lomg blacks.

                    Stay tuned.

                    Paul

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hehehe. Sounds like a good alternative use of the brush. Back scratcher also comes to mind.

                      Was just trying to gauge how much gear and knowledge they set you on your way with. Good that you have some extra training coming up but as you say it can be frustrating at times starting out.

                      Thank you for your inspiration Paul. I’m just now finishing up a cup of black gold with festive fruit mince pie on the side.

                      Hope you get an enjoyable cup too.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Plane24 View Post
                        Thanks everyone. The coffee I am using was bought fresh yesterday. The problem is with the workman and he cannot blame his tools. I will adjust grind to be coarser as per you recommendations and see how I go. Will report back later.

                        Thanks again!
                        Just to totally eliminate one factor, could you kindly confirm what you mean by 'bought fresh yesterday'. When were the beans roasted, and who roasted them?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          level3ninja: Sorry - I am weighing things and the output was 40g of coffee not 40ml. Apologies for the confusion.

                          And yes the T64 does have a worm drive. My main problem was trying to find an initial grind that was roughly what was needed. This was where I spent some time winding the worm drive as there is no quick way to disengage it and do bigger changes with just the dial (at least not that I have found). So I spent lots of time doing coarse changes to find a starting point. It was then I became aware of how very sensitive the beast is to small changes. Hence my attempts at humour regarding grinder manufacturers.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Barry O’Speedwagon (love that name by the way). Coffee is from Bay Coffee Roasters in Neutral Bay Sydney. They roast if not every day then every few days so I am confident the beans are not the problem. It’s me.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              steiny555: you guessed correctly re double basket. I am indeed using a double. I tried a single just once and wisely decided to leave it in the box for now. Based on your advice I have managed to increase liquid output to around 40g from about 18g of ground coffee. To increase liquid output further I tried making the grind coarser but when I did so the output jumped alarmingly (doubled) with only a tiny change in grind. I suspect I may need to grind more than 18g of coffee because the filter basket is not getting filled up to the level I was shown to aim for in the shop. I think this may be contributing to the erratic differences in output I am seeing. I suspect I may be getting random channeling in the puck* because the filter basket is underfilled.

                              As one of our Prime Ministers once said - life was not meant to be easy.

                              * Even if my coffee is not getting any better I am at least picking up on some of the geeky barrista terminology

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