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  • Espresso Shot Issues

    Hi All, looking for a bit of advice. I have a Bezzera Bz99 (not plumbed) and a Eureka Atom grinder. I have been having real trouble getting my shots right since getting the Eureka. My shots are coming out a bit watery with little to no crema and are sour. The coffee I'm using is fresh roasted to order and I start using it no earlier than 10 days after roast date. I'm using the espresso parts double portafilter dosing 16g and measuring with a brewista scale (if I do 18g the Puck has a mark from the shower screen screw). I do a cooking flush before pulling the shot. The shots are producing 32g in 25 seconds.
    So, what am I doing wrong/what should I change?

    Thank in advance,

    Nick

  • #2
    First I think both the grinder and machine are more than capable of producing great tasting coffee, unless there is something broken with them. Do you still have your old grinder as back up you could do some tests on to rule it out?

    25 sec is slightly too fast, but not unreasonable. Might make it a little sour. Can you grind finer to get somewhere over the 30 sec mark? Maybe look to the extreme and hit 40 sec? Aim for a 30g shot in 30 seconds and see if this is better in flavour.

    Have you descaled the machine recently? I don't think the Bz99's have a pressure gauge, so the water temp/pressure may not be right. 9/10 times a descale will fix this.

    Finally, what beans are you using? Some types produce significantly less crema than others. If need be, pop down to your local and grab some 'house' blend beans for a test. Most cafe's 'house' blend will generally produce an all round okay quality coffee with at least some crema.

    There are lots and lots of variables that could affect the shot. But if you nail the basics of 30 in 30 you are well on your way.

    If nothing else works then maybe get someone to look at the machine and service it. Could be a pressure stat or anything else. But save your cash and eliminate anything you can before going down that path.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
      First I think both the grinder and machine are more than capable of producing great tasting coffee, unless there is something broken with them. Do you still have your old grinder as back up you could do some tests on to rule it out?

      25 sec is slightly too fast, but not unreasonable. Might make it a little sour. Can you grind finer to get somewhere over the 30 sec mark? Maybe look to the extreme and hit 40 sec? Aim for a 30g shot in 30 seconds and see if this is better in flavour.

      Have you descaled the machine recently? I don't think the Bz99's have a pressure gauge, so the water temp/pressure may not be right. 9/10 times a descale will fix this.

      Finally, what beans are you using? Some types produce significantly less crema than others. If need be, pop down to your local and grab some 'house' blend beans for a test. Most cafe's 'house' blend will generally produce an all round okay quality coffee with at least some crema.

      There are lots and lots of variables that could affect the shot. But if you nail the basics of 30 in 30 you are well on your way.

      If nothing else works then maybe get someone to look at the machine and service it. Could be a pressure stat or anything else. But save your cash and eliminate anything you can before going down that path.
      Yes both machines are awesome, really love them. I have my old grinder, which I have used for this same coffee, Bellisimo Mocha Java. It definitely produced more crema and would pull 32g closer to 30secs.

      I have tried going finer with grind but when I do this I don't have any espresso coming out for around 15 seconds. Seems like that's a bit too long?

      You're correct mate no pressure gauge unfortunately. It was descaled late last year but I could do that tonight and see how it goes tomorrow morning.

      Regards,

      Nick

      Comment


      • #4
        Worth giving the old grinder another go side by side with the Atom (with the same beans etc). Will tell you if it's the grinder doing something funky or pointing toward the Bezerra.

        15 sec is maybe a little bit long, but not terrible I don't think. Maybe 5-10 is more universal, but it's not out of the ballpark.

        Will be interesting to see the results of the grinders side by side and before/after a descale.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
          Worth giving the old grinder another go side by side with the Atom (with the same beans etc). Will tell you if it's the grinder doing something funky or pointing toward the Bezerra.

          15 sec is maybe a little bit long, but not terrible I don't think. Maybe 5-10 is more universal, but it's not out of the ballpark.

          Will be interesting to see the results of the grinders side by side and before/after a descale.
          I will do a side by side tonight after descaling and go from there. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of it.

          Comment


          • #6
            How long after starting the shot are you seeing coffee come through the portafilter? I ask this as I too had a little "learning curve" adjusting my grinder when i first got it with my new machine. The grinder is the Eureka Zenith. I found shots were starting rather fast which lead me to chance a finer grind. Mine now start pouring at approx 8-10 sec.

            Chris

            Comment


            • #7
              Could be brew temp or pressure. First, would check brew temp. Run water from head without handle. Should be >80°.
              Pressure check is not as easy without equipment.

              Hope this is helpful. Good luck.

              Comment


              • #8
                How much are you adjusting the Atom between this too quick setting and the taking too long to come out setting? What are the numbers? The Atom has relatively high retention compared to some other grinders so changes in the grind setting won't show up in the grinds for at least a double shot, maybe a little more. If it's drinkable I would suggest making a small change and then waiting at least 3-5 pours later to make the next change. Keep drinking the coffee. After a while you'll get used to how long it takes for a change to come through and can make them as needed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by coffeechris View Post
                  How long after starting the shot are you seeing coffee come through the portafilter? I ask this as I too had a little "learning curve" adjusting my grinder when i first got it with my new machine. The grinder is the Eureka Zenith. I found shots were starting rather fast which lead me to chance a finer grind. Mine now start pouring at approx 8-10 sec.

                  Chris
                  About 10 seconds with the setting I have, going any finer its getting up around 15 seconds

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Im no guru, but i read that it was the tamp that controlled the initial start of pour. So maybe suggesting a lighter tamp on a finer grind.

                    I think you need to check the pressure too. Maybe its a bit low.

                    My2c...not really qualified to comment...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                      How much are you adjusting the Atom between this too quick setting and the taking too long to come out setting? What are the numbers? The Atom has relatively high retention compared to some other grinders so changes in the grind setting won't show up in the grinds for at least a double shot, maybe a little more. If it's drinkable I would suggest making a small change and then waiting at least 3-5 pours later to make the next change. Keep drinking the coffee. After a while you'll get used to how long it takes for a change to come through and can make them as needed.
                      Awesome advice, will start waiting a bit longer between changes. Currently sitting on about 2 1/4 on the dial.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jackster View Post
                        Im no guru, but i read that it was the tamp that controlled the initial start of pour. So maybe suggesting a lighter tamp on a finer grind.

                        I think you need to check the pressure too. Maybe its a bit low.

                        My2c...not really qualified to comment...
                        My worry is that because the shots are already pouring watery even with a finer grind that a lighter tamp will just make the shot more watery. But I will give it a whirl and see what happens.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Did you do the side by side with the old grinder? Assuming your issues started with the new grinder and you've ground finer to the point of choking your Bezerra, it might be worth re-visiting your dosing and tamping technique. The improved quality of the grind with the Eureka Atom could be highlighting some short comings in technique?

                          Have you checked that you are not getting channeling? Easiest to do with a bottomless portafilter but sometimes inspecting the edges of the puck after extraction can show signs too.
                          An overly loose fitting tamper can encourage channeling also.

                          Check some YouTube videos for clues or maybe a refresher on dosing and tamping eg. -

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoYAD5TVRc

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC508VQUc7k

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3oSlZSXHog
                          Last edited by Javaphile; 18 January 2018, 05:46 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CafeLotta View Post
                            Did you do the side by side with the old grinder? Assuming your issues started with the new grinder and you've ground finer to the point of choking your Bezerra, it might be worth re-visiting your dosing and tamping technique. The improved quality of the grind with the Eureka Atom could be highlighting some short comings in technique?

                            Have you checked that you are not getting channeling? Easiest to do with a bottomless portafilter but sometimes inspecting the edges of the puck after extraction can show signs too.
                            An overly loose fitting tamper can encourage channeling also.

                            Check some YouTube videos for clues or maybe a refresher on dosing and tamping eg. -

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqoYAD5TVRc

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC508VQUc7k

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3oSlZSXHog
                            My dosing is always fairly consistent, at least in terms of the steps I take. I dose by weight and shake and tap with my hand 6-8 times to distribute before I tamp. I think some of the problem lies in my tamping technique and/or possibly the tamp itself. I have a standard 58mm tamp and there is a bit of wiggle room between it and the portafilter. Should I be considering a 58.3mm tamper? Using the espresso parts 58mm basket.

                            I have checked out with a naked portafilter this morning. Not getting an doughnut effect or anything like that. I think maybe some channelling is happening around the outside. Are there any ways of improving this without getting a slightly bigger tamper?

                            Really appreciate all the tips and videos, thank you [emoji120]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bosco View Post
                              Could be brew temp or pressure. First, would check brew temp. Run water from head without handle. Should be >80°.
                              Pressure check is not as easy without equipment.

                              Hope this is helpful. Good luck.
                              I think I found one contributing factor. After descaling last night and letting the machine heat up uninterrupted for a bit longer than 30 minutes just to be sure. I measured the temp of the water straight away (without a cooling flush) and it read at 88 degrees c. This seems a tad low to me, is that correct? I only had it serviced on the 28th of August last year and they adjusted the brew temp then, I wouldn't think I would have to re-adjust this so soon?

                              Comment

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