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  • thick ooze like honey...

    I've just got a new EM7000 which I'm using with a Rocky. Using a 18g Pesado basket. Been playing with it a bit. I am overdosing a bit because the pucks were very watery and sticking to the showerscreen and pouring too fast. I've got it dialed in okay, grinding very fine and doing a 60ml double in around 30-40 seconds. But I'm not getting (and have never gotten with previous machines) that thick honey-like ooze and the crema is never more than 5-7mm on top of a double shot glass.

    I'm looking into re-aquiring a naked PF so I can see more of what's going on. But I wanted to ask in general what the secret is to getting that ooze?

    Edit: current beans are from Coffee parts in Sydney, they're blend, roasted on the 10th.
    Last edited by redrich2000; 23 January 2018, 05:02 PM.

  • #2
    Sounds a bit like you are probably pouring too much volume. I would try aim for more like a 30-40ml shot. 60ml seems a bit high. Your timing appears to be good 30 ish seconds.
    So maybe try a little finer grind and aim for a slower pour.

    Also make sure you have fresh high quality beans. Supermarket stuff is next to impossible to get an oozey pour with decent crema.

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    • #3
      Okay just made for first naked double. 22g into 18g Pesado basket. Firm tamp. Very nice even pour. Started with multiple well spread spouts, forming into one in the centre after a few seconds. 60ml in almost exactly 30 seconds. Still only 5mm crema on the shot glass.

      Perhaps a fraction fast? I was one grind setting finer this morning and poured way too slow. Perhaps a slightly firmer tamp?
      Maybe this is just the best this machine can do?

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      • #4
        I still think that 60ml is a bit much. If you go one clicker finer how much volume do you get out? and what are the beans you are using?

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        • #5
          Redrich, I cant help, but I'm certainly interested to know how you go.

          For me, the 'rate' of coffee flow certainly reflects the coarseness of the grind... and I can adjust it to give anywhere from gushing coffee, down to slow drips every few second (and anywhere in between). But the liquid is always the consistency of water, it is never a thick/oozy/gooey/warm honey like I've heard espresso described as.

          Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or maybe my expectations of gooiness are just too high.

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          • #6
            Beans will have a lot to do with the oozey-ness. Some beans are naturally gushers and some are more oozers.

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            • #7
              Good to know. But for me it has been happening across half a dozen fresh beans from beanbay. So I think it's more to do with me.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by redrich2000 View Post
                I've just got a new EM7000 which I'm using with a Rocky. Using a 18g Pesado basket. Been playing with it a bit. I am overdosing a bit because the pucks were very watery and sticking to the showerscreen and pouring too fast. I've got it dialed in okay, grinding very fine and doing a 60ml double in around 30-40 seconds. But I'm not getting (and have never gotten with previous machines) that thick honey-like ooze and the crema is never more than 5-7mm on top of a double shot glass.

                I'm looking into re-aquiring a naked PF so I can see more of what's going on. But I wanted to ask in general what the secret is to getting that ooze?

                Edit: current beans are from Coffee parts in Sydney, they're blend, roasted on the 10th.
                G'day redrich2000 . Yeah I'd be inclined to go with what's been suggested already, slowing down the pour. If you want really reeeally goopy slow pours, double ristrettos might be more your thing, extracting with as low as 1:1 ratio (so 22g in, 22g out). The mouthfeel is usually unreal, but keep in mind I reckon only certain coffees this suits, so it's worth playing around with this to see.


                Ah and I had a Rocky grinder too, I did find that the steps were a bit large in effect, so to counter that, I had to alter dose as well. Eg change one click finer may result in far too slow a pour, so I lowered the dose by 0.5-1g to compensate, so that it was only a small change in the espresso yield.

                I'd start with going finer in grind, just gradually though.

                Let us know how ya go

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                • #9
                  Great information

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                  • #10
                    Okay here's my latest. This was 25g dose tamped firmly. The pour was good, maybe a little slow. I got 30ml in about 45 seconds.

                    These are new beans, from Sample Cafe, roasted 22/1.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hi-1BN-ut0&sns=em

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                    • #11
                      Looks good at the start. Nice and thick. There does seem to be a few dead spots where coffee isn't flowing. Are you distributing the coffee grounds evenly? I use a little toothpick to break up the clumps. So maybe you are getting some channeling in the puck?

                      Crema looks good though. Not heaps but alright.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by redrich2000 View Post
                        Okay here's my latest. This was 25g dose tamped firmly. The pour was good, maybe a little slow. I got 30ml in about 45 seconds.

                        These are new beans, from Sample Cafe, roasted 22/1.

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hi-1BN-ut0&sns=em
                        Looks good to me Redrich, pour and crema look good. (some roasts are crema monsters, others, not so much)

                        25 grams into an 18 gram basket is a pretty big dose (almost an ounce of coffee) 45 seconds is quite long, I aim for <> 30 ML in 30 seconds using an 18 gram basket 18 gram dose( yes all of my pours are thick and gloopy) is the puck contacting the shower screen? "because the pucks were very watery and sticking to the shower screen" sounds like it to me, it's a common practice among new machine owners.

                        To get close to 30/30 I would leave the grind as is and cut the dose to 20 grams, experiment from there.

                        Good luck.

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                        • #13
                          Ah nice, yeah shot came together nicely, mostly even pour. I also find that when I have much slower flowing shots (like ristretto-style) that there almost always dead spots, I can't seem to avoid it, and it doesn't seem to matter too much taste-wise. Normal/faster flowing shots seem to not get as stuck. But still try your best to get the grounds distributed well in the basket for sure.

                          And just a note, when people refer to a shot being thick, oozy, honeylike, most of the time they're referring to how the pour looks. Like 'honey off the back of a spoon', and not so much the characteristics of the drink. That being said, of course you can get shots that have this, I've had ones that you could almost chew haha, but not all espressos necessarily have to be thick and have a solid mouthfeel. Usually the way the pour 'should' look is what people are referring to.

                          Ah and yeah 25 grams is quite a bit in the basket! Especially for an 18g basket... how does it feel when you're tamping it, really really full or is it okay and sinks quite a bit? And does the group handle lock in place easily or is there a fair bit of resistance?

                          Good stuff! How did the shot taste by the way?

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                          • #14
                            Looked good Red, Crema looks OK, pour looks good but I got taught to aim for 30 ml in 30 seconds as a rough guide, depending on a number of issues.

                            Did you manage to taste the shot? If so, how did it taste? Was it bitter, sour or OK? IMO...Limited as it may be..It's all about the feel and taste in the mouth.

                            Cheers.
                            Last edited by bigdaddy; 26 January 2018, 09:32 PM. Reason: Punctuation.

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                            • #15
                              thick ooze like honey...

                              There's plenty of room in the basket with that dose, at least 6-8mm below the rim.

                              It tasted good. I drink mostly milk coffee so I'm not a great judge, but it tastes like a Cafe shot.

                              I'm just aiming for those incredible looking 2/3 crema shots I've seen on YouTube. Probably unrealistic. But it's fun to try.

                              Currently slumming in our brick shack in Bilpin drinking instant!

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