/!\ /!\
+ it looked like OP was using the OEM Tamper ....which are not matched to the Basket.
And not much chop IME. They have far too much side clearance too fully weight the puck.
THO at this time the OP has far greater issues than 1%'ers such as matched tampers and tamp weight.
If the grinder burrs are shot then it is easily assessed by swiping you fingers across the face of the cutting edges.
If they're serviceable they'll feel as tho they want to cut you. Where as a shot burr set will feel as dull as a blade of a carving knife.
Given the OP ( via his other thread) is trying to Dial In a new machine. And given the wild swings in shot volume / very short shot times. "150ml in 25sec"
I'd source a known good bean blend, with a known roast date within 2 weeks. ( yes he was first using 4 days old beans) but....
Given the issues thats the first and easiest 'one' thing to change out and compare.
If its not an issue...no worries ...tightly bag up and hold ...he'll need them in the next week!
I'd start there. STICK to a set dose rate. Given 20g is stated as over dosing and 18g is leaving a head height where water is pooling.
I'd find the dose obv around 19g and then stick to it.
Record all your results. For taste. Plus shot time, preinfusion time and of course shot volume / times.
At 19g if the shot doesn't meet a base setting of (max) 40-44g volume at a shot time of over 25sec. Then I'd keep chasing it.
As it will be far too quick a shot. As in the video posted up. A very light 'biege' crema that appears underextracted.
If still no success...
From there I'd begg or borrow a grinder for half a day, to swap out yours.
Remember only change one thing at a time.
And by marking up the grind settings and checking the shot results will help direct you what changes are then logically required.
Good Luck
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Is my grinder or my machine dodgy? [extraction time/volume] Video attached
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I’m not saying it’s definitely the grinder, but I’d want to eliminate it as the issue before looking at the coffee, your technique or your espresso machine.Originally posted by science-teacher View PostThanks mate, I think you've hit the nail on the head.
So at this point it looks like it's the burr or sweeper, but would cost more than its worth to replace.
Except those that say it isn't the burr
Overall your prep technique looked ok except for maybe the excessive tapping of the portafilter on the mat before tamping. I’d definitely stop doing that and see if it makes a difference. Just tap it a few times on the side with your hand to settle the grounds.
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I have an older Breville Smart Grinder and a 7 month old Breville dual Boiler and went through the same problems that you are having.
The grinder is shimmed to the max but I still do not feel it is fine enough.
Even though I had fresh beans I still got gushers and sloppy pucks.
I eventually managed to get consistent pours by changing from oily, dark roasted beans to a much lighter roasted blend.
I now use Griffiths Kingston blend which is yummy and will consistently pour at around 8-9bar in 35secs.
It still does not taste quite as nice as when I buy a takeway cup from the only place I know in Sth Oz that uses it (Port Elliot Bakery) but pretty damn close.
I no longer weigh my dose but I found 18g insufficient (razer tool was useless) and reckon I probably run at 19g with a very hard tamp.
Next week I plan on researching Pullman tampers and baskets >19g which is the cheaper option but I'm sure my grinder is not up to scratch(will have to wait till xmas).
Valvster
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Thanks mate, I think you've hit the nail on the head.Originally posted by LeroyC View PostIt sounds like you agree with me then based on this statement -
“Stating it's all DOSE-TIME-YIELD' doesn't help the OP solve his problems as he has mentioned that he knows his yield is way off. He is out of room to make his grind finer (with the current setup), already dosed to pretty much the max the basket can handle and kept a timer in his video.”
And actually you’ve explained perfectly that you don’t need to examine the puck to know something is wrong.
So to get back to helping the OP - while the condition of the puck COULD be an indicator of the issue it’s not necessary to consider it. You have obviously reached the limits of your equipment and it seems like the grinder is the most likely cause of the problems. Rather than jumping into spending money on repairs or a new grinder is there any way you could borrow one from someone to see if you can get a better result?
So at this point it looks like it's the burr or sweeper, but would cost more than its worth to replace.
Except those that say it isn't the burr
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Originally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View PostWouldn't exactly call this 'puckology' as I agree 'puckology' is bit like reading tea leaves. But what a sloppy puck does show is that something is wrong as in general a nice firm dry puck is good and in the OP's case where he cannot get any closer to an appropraite 'DOSE-TIME-YIELD' with his current setup. The puck may suggest one thing over another - in this case a finer grind seems to be more appropriate.
Stating it's all 'DOSE-TIME-YIELD' doesn't help the OP solve his problems as he has mentioned that he knows his yield is way off. He is out of room to make his grind finer (with the current setup), already dosed to pretty much the max the basket can handle and kept a timer in his video.
I appreciate your views on puckology based on your experience but the OP is looking for a solution to their woes.
It sounds like you agree with me then based on this statement -
“Stating it's all DOSE-TIME-YIELD' doesn't help the OP solve his problems as he has mentioned that he knows his yield is way off. He is out of room to make his grind finer (with the current setup), already dosed to pretty much the max the basket can handle and kept a timer in his video.”
And actually you’ve explained perfectly that you don’t need to examine the puck to know something is wrong.
So to get back to helping the OP - while the condition of the puck COULD be an indicator of the issue it’s not necessary to consider it. You have obviously reached the limits of your equipment and it seems like the grinder is the most likely cause of the problems. Rather than jumping into spending money on repairs or a new grinder is there any way you could borrow one from someone to see if you can get a better result?
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Wouldn't exactly call this 'puckology' as I agree 'puckology' is bit like reading tea leaves. But what a sloppy puck does show is that something is wrong as in general a nice firm dry puck is good and in the OP's case where he cannot get any closer to an appropraite 'DOSE-TIME-YIELD' with his current setup. The puck may suggest one thing over another - in this case a finer grind seems to be more appropriate.Originally posted by LeroyC View PostLove all this ‘puckology’. The sloppy puck may or may not be an issue. Personally I’d ignore it as you don’t need to examine the puck to diagnose your problems. It really is as simple as DOSE-TIME-YIELD.
Stating it's all 'DOSE-TIME-YIELD' doesn't help the OP solve his problems as he has mentioned that he knows his yield is way off. He is out of room to make his grind finer (with the current setup), already dosed to pretty much the max the basket can handle and kept a timer in his video.
I appreciate your views on puckology based on your experience but the OP is looking for a solution to their woes.
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Love all this ‘puckology’. The sloppy puck may or may not be an issue. Personally I’d ignore it as you don’t need to examine the puck to diagnose your problems. It really is as simple as DOSE-TIME-YIELD.
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It could well be the grinder that’s the problem then. I agree with what noidle22 said above that the burrs should last many years, but I’ve heard of at least one other person having a similar problem with the same grinder and it was fixed by replacing the burrs. So I wonder if there’s the occasional faulty set or if they get damaged by being set incorrectly and smashing into each other. They’re hardened steel and it could just be one two damaged teeth that are enough to give an inconsistent result even if they’re not particularly worn and are still capable of what looks like a good espresso grind.Originally posted by science-teacher View PostThe top burr is adjustable, it's on setting 1/10 which is the finest. The burrs clash at about 15 and I've ground at that and lower with no success unfortuately. Grinder clogged up and stopped on grind setting 1/60
Replacement burr sets used to be available for this model for about $50 so it would be worth checking with a Breville service agent. You can also get replacement impellers. Not sure how much they cost.
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Replacement impeller here for $45 https://www.shapeways.com/product/NA...ionId=59828416Originally posted by LeroyC View PostThat’s the same model. I agree that a properly functioning impeller/sweeper is imperative.
10% of what the sette would cost. Hmmmmmmm
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Yes I've tried 20g and get the shower screen imprint, and the puck looks like death. I can try 19gOriginally posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View PostRonin, the reality is that a sloppy puck can mean a few different things. I think in this case it is probably more likely the grind is not fine enough over a too low dose. Although it is a good point worth uping the dose to see if that helps.
Either way trying a different grinder/getting a local cafe to grind some beans will rule a few things in/out.
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Originally posted by HomeBrew View PostI have a slightly different model Breville grinder (BCG600), but it has the same basic arrangement as far as the burr and top carrier go.
I do not understand your terminology vis-à-vis 1/10 1/15 1/60 etc, but if you are getting your grinder clogging once you get to finer settings, it really indicates the sweeper (the correct name, not impeller) is probably worn. Get a new sweeper and fit it, then see how you get on after that.
When it gets clogged, is when the burrs are touching alot. like i will barely run when theres no beans because the burrs are clashing.
Sorry, let me elaborate.
The machine has 60 macro settings, it is in the finest. 1/60
The top burr also has 10 micro settings, it is also on the finest. 1/10
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Ronin, the reality is that a sloppy puck can mean a few different things. I think in this case it is probably more likely the grind is not fine enough over a too low dose. Although it is a good point worth uping the dose to see if that helps.
Either way trying a different grinder/getting a local cafe to grind some beans will rule a few things in/out.
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[QUOTE=WhatEverBeansNecessary;632510]
The puck is sloppy which usually means not grinding fine enough
I have to disagree with this.
A sloppy puck means for this particular machine and basket you are dosing too low.
Search the 5c piece test here, you’ll find it, and get the correct VOLUME for your basket. Weigh that then use it as a baseline (a baseline only, like anything with coffee).
Just because you are dosing 18g does not mean it’s rught for your set up
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That’s the same model. I agree that a properly functioning impeller/sweeper is imperative.Originally posted by HomeBrew View PostI have a slightly different model Breville grinder (BCG600), but it has the same basic arrangement as far as the burr and top carrier go.
I do not understand your terminology vis-à-vis 1/10 1/15 1/60 etc, but if you are getting your grinder clogging once you get to finer settings, it really indicates the sweeper (the correct name, not impeller) is probably worn. Get a new sweeper and fit it, then see how you get on after that.
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I have a slightly different model Breville grinder (BCG600), but it has the same basic arrangement as far as the burr and top carrier go.Originally posted by science-teacher View Post... Grinder clogged up and stopped on grind setting 1/60
I do not understand your terminology vis-à-vis 1/10 1/15 1/60 etc, but if you are getting your grinder clogging once you get to finer settings, it really indicates the sweeper (the correct name, not impeller) is probably worn. Get a new sweeper and fit it, then see how you get on after that.
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