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Advice wanted about dosing / dialling in

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by WarrenK View Post
    Having made over 7000 single basket consecutive shots I have always wondered about the comments that say they are hard to do compared to double shots. I have never bothered with the double shot basket. It may only be peculiar to my machine, but as long as I have fresh roasted quality beans I am certain of success with the single shot basket.
    Practice makes perfect.

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  • WarrenK
    replied
    Having made over 7000 single basket consecutive shots I have always wondered about the comments that say they are hard to do compared to double shots. I have never bothered with the double shot basket. It may only be peculiar to my machine, but as long as I have fresh roasted quality beans I am certain of success with the single shot basket.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackfish View Post
    So why are they still made like that?
    Groundhog day.
    Click image for larger version

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  • Blackfish
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    Well, some people, like my lovely lady for instance, consider that even half a Single Shot is on the strong side for them so no doubt a lot of users still use the Single. Have never found the Single on any machine difficult to dial in to be honest but of course, everyone's mileage will vary...
    I too would like to be able to successfully use a single basket but from previous posts it seems that except the specialty brand ones such as VST, all other ones sold with machine such as my Bezzera one are unusable. I’ve not once been able to pull a decent single shot so far, and all the options in reply to my request for advice is that it is that the basket fault. So why are they still made like that?

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimal View Post
    Well, some people, like my lovely lady for instance, consider that even half a Single Shot is on the strong side for them so no doubt a lot of users still use the Single. Have never found the Single on any machine difficult to dial in to be honest but of course, everyone's mileage will vary...
    Have to admit Mal, I have never persevered with the single, simply because I worked out very early on in my espresso career that my preference is for 18 grams of ground coffee in the basket for both a Lungo and a double shot.

    Having said that I do recall pfaffing around with the single basket many years ago in the Silvia with inglorious results, that's when I started using the EP 14/18 baskets, I have never changed, the Bezzera PF has never seen a single basket, and that's now going on for 10 years old.

    I imagine if I had the desire I could sort one out now, I simply don't need to.

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Well, some people, like my lovely lady for instance, consider that even half a Single Shot is on the strong side for them so no doubt a lot of users still use the Single. Have never found the Single on any machine difficult to dial in to be honest but of course, everyone's mileage will vary...

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  • Blackfish
    replied
    So, out of curiosity, why coffee machine manufacturers keep producing unusable single baskets?????

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  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackfish View Post
    Hi, I’ve attached photos of my single basket and of another basket which came with the second hand machine and also causes the same issue; the centre funnel looks slightly larger, but I’ve measured the depth at the outer shoulder and they are identical.

    I always use a 0.1g scale to dose the beans and tamp on a silicone corner mat so the pf is fairly stable. Always use graduated shot glasses, but as the channeling occurs the shot glass is full in less than 20 seconds no matter what.

    I’ll try the VST basket, should I look into a tamper matched to the basket as well?


    [ATTACH=CONFIG]20873[/ATTACH]

    Gday Blackfish

    The first one is definitely "untampable" in the sense of making a decent cuppa. The second one looks better, although I cannot tell from that angle. Find a photo of a 7g VST and see if it is close enough to the same shape.

    FWIW, my ideal single basket would have even steeper sides than the VST, as I had to get my 316 prototype single tamper (see photo - if it worked) machined to match the slope of the side of the "inner wall". Having said that, I did manage to use a 1/3 full Smartwater bottle as a temporary tamper successfully for a year or so before then. Oh, and yes - a VST requires a flat base on the tamper to work properly.
    Attached Files

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  • Blackfish
    replied
    Hi, I’ve attached photos of my single basket and of another basket which came with the second hand machine and also causes the same issue; the centre funnel looks slightly larger, but I’ve measured the depth at the outer shoulder and they are identical.

    I always use a 0.1g scale to dose the beans and tamp on a silicone corner mat so the pf is fairly stable. Always use graduated shot glasses, but as the channeling occurs the shot glass is full in less than 20 seconds no matter what.

    I’ll try the VST basket, should I look into a tamper matched to the basket as well?


    Click image for larger version

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    Attached Files

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  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackfish View Post
    Apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I am having troubles every time I use my single shot PF with my Bezzera BZ99S. I am now able to pull a decent coffee using the double PF, but every time I use the single I experience bad channelling. Beans are fresh from a local quality roaster, and I have no issue using the same beans and technique with the double PF.
    I've tried to increase/decrease the dose from 7g to 9g, and grind finer/coarser but it made no difference. I am using a lido E hand grinder and a 30 lb calibrated tamper, and I weigh the dose with an electronic scale.
    I suspect that the problem could be related to the fact that the single basket has only room for around 2mm of coffee or less on the edges, as the shower protrudes quite a lot into the basket on my machine.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]20844[/ATTACH]
    G'day Blackfish

    I have posted before on CS that a lot of single baskets are actually "untampable". The photo looks like one of them. Any basket with a shallow bowl shaped base cannot be tamped reliably.

    Try a single VST (it has a shoulder and a deep central portion) or similar basket and dose it to 7.2g (using 0.1g scales is almost essential when setting up a single). Find any flat based object the correct size to tamp it (about 40mm from memory) and adjust the grind to get the shot within timing range of (say) 25 to 35 seconds "post preinfusion" until the taste is correct.

    That is how I have set up many friend's cafes over the years using fairly simple logic - if the single works, then all the other baskets will be close enough*.

    BTW, your Lido should have an even enough particle spread to work with a VST.


    TampIt
    * VSTs vary the size of their holes as the basket size changes. This makes the overall flow rate of all their baskets similar, so the same grinding texture works on their 7g as well as their 15, 18, 20 and 22g. Makes cafe life so much easier when you can use any basket on the shelf without farting around with the grinder...

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  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by SanderP View Post
    Some folks stick to a double basket with a double spout and run one of the spouts into the target cup and dispose of the other.

    I can’t come to a reliable outcome with a single and I can’t stand to throw it away so it’s doubles every time at my place.
    Yep, cant argue with this logic, doubles all the way here as well.

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  • SanderP
    replied
    Some folks stick to a double basket with a double spout and run one of the spouts into the target cup and dispose of the other.

    I can’t come to a reliable outcome with a single and I can’t stand to throw it away so it’s doubles every time at my place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackfish View Post
    Apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I am having troubles every time I use my single shot PF with my Bezzera BZ99S. I am now able to pull a decent coffee using the double PF, but every time I use the single I experience bad channelling. Beans are fresh from a local quality roaster, and I have no issue using the same beans and technique with the double PF.
    I've tried to increase/decrease the dose from 7g to 9g, and grind finer/coarser but it made no difference. I am using a lido E hand grinder and a 30 lb calibrated tamper, and I weigh the dose with an electronic scale.
    I suspect that the problem could be related to the fact that the single basket has only room for around 2mm of coffee or less on the edges, as the shower protrudes quite a lot into the basket on my machine.
    Very common Blackfish, most find single baskets difficult, not saying it cant be done, however most switch to using a double basket exclusively, much easier.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackfish
    replied
    Apologies for resurrecting this old thread but I am having troubles every time I use my single shot PF with my Bezzera BZ99S. I am now able to pull a decent coffee using the double PF, but every time I use the single I experience bad channelling. Beans are fresh from a local quality roaster, and I have no issue using the same beans and technique with the double PF.
    I've tried to increase/decrease the dose from 7g to 9g, and grind finer/coarser but it made no difference. I am using a lido E hand grinder and a 30 lb calibrated tamper, and I weigh the dose with an electronic scale.
    I suspect that the problem could be related to the fact that the single basket has only room for around 2mm of coffee or less on the edges, as the shower protrudes quite a lot into the basket on my machine.

    Click image for larger version

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Originally posted by herzog View Post
    When you’re dialing in and troubleshooting, you need to taste your straight espresso.
    Or as Long Blacks if espresso is too intense...

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:

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