Where and what blends for an Italian.

[BobSac]

I really like what Australia, esp Melbourne is doing with the coffee scene, so don't want to s*** on it, because I'm Aussie, I make products for export in Melbourne and so I'm 100% for pioneering an industry locally and supporting local talent.

I think technically we can be much, much better than the Italians, which I think are a tad complacent, but most places are beyond pioneering techniques and upto what I call hipster nonsense. I really can't stand the coffee from the places recognised for being the best, my local $1 coffee is better -no exaggeration.

When my family is over (from Rome) we often will end up at those hipster joints and they can't drink the coffee. It could be we're a bunch of negative Nancy's or too cool for enjoying progress though, maybe we don't like change, that may not be a good thing.

I also don't like pizza other than VPN, shifting anything but a manual box and valve amps and DAT are my thing ��

People huh?

[Yelta]

Sure, well my benchmark is the Mocopan Pasquale because it's traditional Italian and by that I mean this is what I remember coffee tasting like as a young wog boy in the 80's in Melbourne and what coffee still tastes like all over Italy.

Sweet (without any sugar) and caramel tones, virtually no acidity, great on its own as a single or double and just as good with milk as a triple. I like smooth easy drinking coffee that doesn't have any tart flavours or bite to it, a little burnt flavour, just a little is OK, I don't want it, but a very amount is acceptable. I prefer that to under roasted acidity. Any citrus hints ruin an espresso for me.

My next best roast so far is a cheap blend ($25/kg) that I got from a local cafe after being impressed with the espresso they made, it's called DiVenzio and it's not as good as Pasquale in any way but I don't have to travel to get it and it's almost $10 P/kilo cheaper -a very fair price for good beans.

Both this blends are always no older than a week whenever I get them.

I used to like blends from Coffex, I used them in my cafe, also Grinders most expensive blend (before it was owned by Coke), I did like coffee froma group (Coburg) but not any more, it's all boutique stuff now and not really my style, very acidic and under-roasted (for me).

I'm 100% sure the best baristas will think I'm a joke and that my coffee tastes horrid, but I think the 'best' places in Melbourne make undrinkable rubbish.

So I think none of my thoughts are of any use as taste is so subjective. I haven't had a single client that hasn't loved my espresso though made with my cheap $25 beans, cheap Sunbeam grinder and cheap old Silvia.

Keep in mind I'm an espresso drinker, I rarely drink milk based and it's my opinion that pour over is best described as dirty water.

Fair enough Bob, the only person you need to satisfy is yourself, taste is strongly related to your early experiences.

Like you I started drinking espresso in the 70's/80's, in Adelaide this meant Italian type coffee all the way, I enjoyed it then and still do.

Yep! I found most coffee in Italy very much to my taste, obviously doesn't please the average Aussie tutti frutti palate, but suits me down to the ground, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all that matters.

Coffee tastes in Oz tend to ebb and flow like the tide, it seems to be a fashion/peer pressure type thing, I've discovered exactly what floats my boat and stick to it.

For some reason Aussies adopt a my way or the highway type attitude, perhaps its isolation from whats going on in the rest of the world, vive la difference.

[BobSac]

It would be great if you could make a post to the thread about which of the recommended beans you tried and your thoughts, tasting notes on them.

What did you like, what did you dislike etc?

Sure, well my benchmark is the Mocopan Pasquale because it's traditional Italian and by that I mean this is what I remember coffee tasting like as a young wog boy in the 80's in Melbourne and what coffee still tastes like all over Italy.

Sweet (without any sugar) and caramel tones, virtually no acidity, great on its own as a single or double and just as good with milk as a triple. I like smooth easy drinking coffee that doesn't have any tart flavours or bite to it, a little burnt flavour, just a little is OK, I don't want it, but a very amount is acceptable. I prefer that to under roasted acidity. Any citrus hints ruin an espresso for me.

My next best roast so far is a cheap blend ($25/kg) that I got from a local cafe after being impressed with the espresso they made, it's called DiVenzio and it's not as good as Pasquale in any way but I don't have to travel to get it and it's almost $10 P/kilo cheaper -a very fair price for good beans.

Both this blends are always no older than a week whenever I get them.

I used to like blends from Coffex, I used them in my cafe, also Grinders most expensive blend (before it was owned by Coke), I did like coffee froma group (Coburg) but not any more, it's all boutique stuff now and not really my style, very acidic and under-roasted (for me).

I'm 100% sure the best baristas will think I'm a joke and that my coffee tastes horrid, but I think the 'best' places in Melbourne make undrinkable rubbish.

So I think none of my thoughts are of any use as taste is so subjective. I haven't had a single client that hasn't loved my espresso though made with my cheap $25 beans, cheap Sunbeam grinder and cheap old Silvia.

Keep in mind I'm an espresso drinker, I rarely drink milk based and it's my opinion that pour over is best described as dirty water.

[herzog]

After trying
You really can't take anyone's advice when it comes to beans as taste is so subjective.

a couple months and a bunch of cash trying blends some of which were clearly not described correctly or anywhere close to fresh, or another

It would be great if you could make a post to the thread about which of the recommended beans you tried and your thoughts, tasting notes on them.

What did you like, what did you dislike etc?

[Gretsch]

It’s funny how I typed two cents as 2 and c and was converted to my second crack ��

[BobSac]

After trying and being quite upset with myself for wasting money on more low vole roaster coffee, I've gone back to Mocopan Pasquale as my benchmark.

You really can't take anyone's advice when it comes to beans as taste is so subjective.

I still think a rating system would be a good idea.
How dark the roast is on a standardised scale, perhaps the timing past first and/or second crack?

I know it's no one's fault, including my own, but I was so frustrated when I wasted a couple months and a bunch of cash trying blends some of which were clearly not described correctly or anywhere close to fresh, or another issue.

I will try roasting my own soon, I've got the machine and grinder just right now.

[Otago]

As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.

Yelta! Does this make you an influencer? Maybe one for the niche older persons market sector?

[Gretsch]

G’day BobSac, I’m an ex-Carlton ite myself, my dad had a licensed grocery business in Carlton and my uncle used to import green beans and roast them himself for wholesale to restaurants around melb. That’s where I bought my coffee from and was quite happy although occasionally he’d burn them.

Since he stopped roasting I could not get any joy from any of the coffee suppliers in oz. We visited France and Italy some years ago and there you could get an excellent shot anywhere, even the petrol outlets had decent espresso.

I bit the bullet, bought a roaster from Andy and now roast and blend my own. And m extremely happy with the results. Maybe you should go that way yourself.
my 2c.

[CoffeeHack]

I guess it goes to show that this is but one 'boutique' roaster who appreciates the difference between light/dark roasts. I hope you can soon settle on a convenient, suitable option!

[BobSac]

Thanks, sounds good, too bad it's a state away from me.
Totally agree with the comments about people liking what they like, nobody should be learning to like what a barista tells them is 'right'.

[CoffeeHack]

Here's an interesting article relevant to the discussion in this thread (about a new roaster in Adelaide, with some commentary on dark/light roasting trends): https://www.broadsheet.com.au/adelai...ern/cafes/hark

[BobSac]

G'Day Bobsac, not pissed off, sorry if I came across that way.

As others have now commented it's probably darker roasted beans your after, perhaps with a small percentage of Robusta added (Italian style) stay away from supermarket stuff i.e. Vittoria, Lavatzza etc.

As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.

I did try a Vittoria 'mountain grown' bean from Woolies, on special for $15, because I was told it was good. It was not ��

Lavazza isn't great either imo, perhaps in Italy?
Maybe it's too old by the time it's shipped here? Or not as good as it used to be (it was good when I was drinking it regularly in the 90's).

It will try at least one of the recommendations in this thread and I will post my thoughts.

[Yelta]

G'Day Bobsac, not pissed off, sorry if I came across that way.

As others have now commented it's probably darker roasted beans your after, perhaps with a small percentage of Robusta added (Italian style) stay away from supermarket stuff i.e. Vittoria, Lavatzza etc.

As a matter of interest, some here have mentioned Aldi as being a source of reasonable quality commercially roasted beans at very low cost, particularly their darker roasted beans, could be worth a try, from memory only about $15 a kg.

[herzog]

That's what I'm after, I've found it more and more difficult to come by recently!

Ok good we've nailed that down.

You've been provided with a couple of solid options in this thread. Let us know how it works out.

[BobSac]

BobSac it sounds like those coffees you have not liked recently are what I describe as a "hipster roast'. This is a light roast that's quite faddish at the moment, yet many of us here are not fans. It can taste sour, grassy and like unripened fruit. Some inner city cafes have gone all-in on the stuff.

As Yelta says, it sounds like your preference is for a darker, italian style roast which brings out those warmer flavours in the coffee such as nut, chocolate etc. I generally prefer that style myself.

That's what I'm after, I've found it more and more difficult to come by recently!