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Cafe says portafilters burn coffee

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  • Cafe says portafilters burn coffee

    Walked into a cafe, went to the counter to order two coffees. I noticed the machine's 3 portaftes were not on their groups but sitting on the drip tray. Maybe the machine was out of order, thought I.

    "Are you going to make the coffees with that machine?" I asked incredulously?
    "Yes"
    "But the portafilters are off the groups"
    "Yes, I was told you have to leave them off otherwise the coffee gets burned".

    I told her thar was incorrect... but she had work to do and wasn't about to debate coffee making with this stranger customer...

    Where do idiotic ideas which fly in the face of the basics come from? How do such cafes survive?

  • #2
    Splash some zippo on top and light it up man [emoji91]

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    • #3
      If they had pre prepared the coffee in them I could agree. If it's a Hx E61/similar machine a cooling flush may be required if a group head hasn't been used in a little while. If they're running the boiler at a high temp to have lots of steam, and using darker roasted beans that do better with a lower brew temperature, and they're only using the machine every hour or so, then maybe? Otherwise I can't see it happening but I'm not the suppository of all wisdom.

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      • #4
        Anyone who uses the phrase ‘burn the coffee’ doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The only place you can ‘burn’ coffee is in a coffee roaster (or a fire).

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        • #5
          Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
          I'm not the suppository of all wisdom.
          I thought that was Tony Abbotts job.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
            Anyone who uses the phrase ‘burn the coffee’ doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The only place you can ‘burn’ coffee is in a coffee roaster (or a fire).
            I was under the impression I could burn it with a super slow extraction. If I get something like 10g yield in 60s it will taste like ash and burnt rubber. It's quite a different taste to the bitterness of over extraction.

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            • #7
              Guess you could use the term burn although to me is seems inappropriate, doesn't really describe whats happening, prolonged exposure to higher temperature has had an undesired affect on the coffee, not really burnt it.

              Some foods can be adversely affected when overcooked but have not been burned, resulting in undesired flavours.

              fire or heat has hurt or damaged something:

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              • #8
                Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                I was under the impression I could burn it with a super slow extraction. If I get something like 10g yield in 60s it will taste like ash and burnt rubber. It's quite a different taste to the bitterness of over extraction.
                Yes, absolutely you can generate burnt flavours through a variety of poor practices. Ashy/burnt flavours in a beverage is different to actually burning the coffee though in my opinion. It’s not a turn of phrase I like to use as I don’t think it’s the most appropriate adjective.

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                • #9
                  Espresso extraction temp is <> 90°C, well below boiling point at sea level of 100°C and way below the ignition point of roasted coffee beans.

                  I suspect what we are seeing is extraction of unwanted flavours/substances because of excessive heat, certainly not burning.

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                  • #10
                    Interesting. So are we saying that those burnt flavours are always in the roasted coffee but if we extract well they end up in the knock bin rather than the cup?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                      Interesting. So are we saying that those burnt flavours are always in the roasted coffee but if we extract well they end up in the knock bin rather than the cup?
                      Yes and no. It’s complex and dependent on lots of factors such as roast level, bean density, equipment and techniques used, and any ‘defects’ that are generated along the way. In my experience something not being quite right can lead to the burnt flavours showing up such as a roast defect or poor brewing. Roasting really dark or a very uneven roast are the most obvious causes. I think that you can definitely employ some basic ‘rules’ to avoid it, but if we go back to the original post the barista said they had to leave the portafilters out of the groups so that they didn’t ‘burn the coffee’. To me this seems like a temperature management work around and they don’t really understand why they’re doing it, rather they’re just doing it because someone told them to. I’d be interested to know what an espresso from this place tasted like.

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                      • #12
                        The espresso from this popular venue--yeah, I know--was cold, black, bitter, no crema.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by robusto View Post
                          The espresso from this popular venue--yeah, I know--was cold, black, bitter, no crema.
                          Do you know what brand of coffee they use?

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                          • #14
                            My experience is that bad practices (particularly with coffee) usually have friends.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
                              Do you know what brand of coffee they use?
                              No, I didn't notice.

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