That's okay, I can't stay mad at you all. I'll even admit that I'm a heathen who drinks my tea with milk...
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Caffeine hit? For me that's a miss.
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G'day level3ninjaOriginally posted by level3ninja View PostI wish caffeine didn't do much to me. A few months ago I cut down from a 20g dose in the morning to 10g because I realised my productivity between about 9am-11am was likely poor due to overstimulation. It does mean I can have a top-up coffee later more regularly.
My wife, on the other hand, can drink it whenever without issue. Her father is the same, he regularly has 2-3+ double shots a day, including one at night. My MIL used to have one in the morning and one at night (had done for years) until she had a lot of trouble getting to sleep for months. Turned out to be silent reflux due to the caffeine and acidity of coffee. She's switched to no caffeine after 11am and no more than 1 decaf a day.
If there was some sort of machine or grinder upgrade that would allow me to down it like my FIL I know I'd be super keen!
Partly to bring this thread back on topic.
There are a few simple ways to reduce caffeine - one way is the way I do my cuppas. BTW, nothing directly to do with selecting roasts / roast depth - pick your own poison for that.
According to Illy "Coffee Quality - the Science of Espresso" (my ultimate reference, although dated in some areas) all the caffeine dissolves in the first few seconds.
For those on CS who think Illy is wrong, consider this: drop some whole beans in a gently running stream for 48 hours and the caffeine is mostly gone. Funny, that is how the early "non chemical decaf" was made... Most of the other compounds in coffee take a lot longer to dissolve, so the flavour is (relatively) intact.
More even particle spread = potential higher (coffee) extraction ratio whilst the caffeine mass stays (fairly) constant. So my VST / Vario is about 25%, standard baskets / grinder are about 15% = 2/3rds the caffeine.
Letting the shot run longer means the level of caffeine as a %age will drop. Mind you, balancing the flavour is far more important in my view.
I hope this helps.
TampIt
PS That is also why some of those seeking a caffeine hit prefer plunger (or Turkish) coffee. Using a lot more beans to get a result means the caffeine %age is way up.
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Dear TampIt, Thank you very much for the great advice and explanations. I also have red some Illy's papers and books, and started to believe that caffeine was extracted in the first seconds of espresso making under 93 degree with 9 bars. Unfortunately, there are many soluble solids (and flavours) also extracted at the same time as caffeine itself. Therefore espresso flavour is affected. From my experience, if I remove my espresso extract after first 3-5 seconds of extraction, and drink only the rest, I could not test the body of my espresso shot. It is like drinking de-caf or Luwak coffee.Originally posted by TampIt View PostG'day level3ninja
Partly to bring this thread back on topic.
There are a few simple ways to reduce caffeine - one way is the way I do my cuppas. BTW, nothing directly to do with selecting roasts / roast depth - pick your own poison for that.
According to Illy "Coffee Quality - the Science of Espresso" (my ultimate reference, although dated in some areas) all the caffeine dissolves in the first few seconds.
For those on CS who think Illy is wrong, consider this: drop some whole beans in a gently running stream for 48 hours and the caffeine is mostly gone. Funny, that is how the early "non chemical decaf" was made... Most of the other compounds in coffee take a lot longer to dissolve, so the flavour is (relatively) intact.
More even particle spread = potential higher (coffee) extraction ratio whilst the caffeine mass stays (fairly) constant. So my VST / Vario is about 25%, standard baskets / grinder are about 15% = 2/3rds the caffeine.
Letting the shot run longer means the level of caffeine as a %age will drop. Mind you, balancing the flavour is far more important in my view.
I hope this helps.
TampIt
PS That is also why some of those seeking a caffeine hit prefer plunger (or Turkish) coffee. Using a lot more beans to get a result means the caffeine %age is way up.
Do you (or other CS) know any other way to reduce caffeine in espresso shot without affecting body and flavour???
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Dear TampIt, Sorry, I forgot to mention that I played with grind of coffee beans for my espresso shot and found that the finer grind has more caffeine extracted in my shot. But again I need to keep the balance between flavour and body of my shot and caffeine concentration in my shot. There is a good (but very scientific) paper was published about extraction of coffee:See discussions, stats, and author profiles for this publication at: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265133947 Comparison of nine common coffee extraction methods: Instrumental and sensory analysisArticle in European Food Research and Technology · January 2013 DOI: 10.1007/s00217-013-1917-x (Comparison of nine common coffee extraction methods: instrumental and sensory analysis. Alexia N. Gloess • Barbara Scho ¨nba ¨chler • Babette Klopprogge • Lucio D‘Ambrosio • Karin Chatelain • Annette Bongartz • Andre ´ Strittmatter • Markus Rast • Chahan Yeretzian)
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Apart from upping the extraction rate via a grinder with a more even particle spread (which may unlock more, clearer and better flavour without changing the overall impression) and getting VST baskets (same effect at a different point in the chain) there are no other convenient options. Oh, I always use a naked P/F, as it also adds a bit more oomph to the flavour quantity. All three of those actually act in synergy so the overall effect is multiplied - which is why I ended up (after 30+ years of doubles) using 7g (single) VST baskets as the 15g double was actually far too strong to enjoy the cuppa.Originally posted by ilichev View PostDear TampIt, Thank you very much for the great advice and explanations. I also have red some Illy's papers and books, and started to believe that caffeine was extracted in the first seconds of espresso making under 93 degree with 9 bars. Unfortunately, there are many soluble solids (and flavours) also extracted at the same time as caffeine itself. Therefore espresso flavour is affected. From my experience, if I remove my espresso extract after first 3-5 seconds of extraction, and drink only the rest, I could not test the body of my espresso shot. It is like drinking de-caf or Luwak coffee.
Do you (or other CS) know any other way to reduce caffeine in espresso shot without affecting body and flavour???
Interesting article. See https://www.scottrao.com/blog/2018/1...-rate-grinders as well.Originally posted by ilichev View PostDear TampIt, Sorry, I forgot to mention that I played with grind of coffee beans for my espresso shot and found that the finer grind has more caffeine extracted in my shot. But again I need to keep the balance between flavour and body of my shot and caffeine concentration in my shot. There is a good (but very scientific) paper was published about extraction of coffee:See discussions, stats, and author profiles for this publication at: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265133947 Comparison of nine common coffee extraction methods: Instrumental and sensory analysisArticle in European Food Research and Technology · January 2013 DOI: 10.1007/s00217-013-1917-x (Comparison of nine common coffee extraction methods: instrumental and sensory analysis. Alexia N. Gloess • Barbara Scho ¨nba ¨chler • Babette Klopprogge • Lucio D‘Ambrosio • Karin Chatelain • Annette Bongartz • Andre ´ Strittmatter • Markus Rast • Chahan Yeretzian)
I reckon your only other "utterly not convenient" option is to decaf the beans yourself (i.e. slowly running water and tinker with the time to minimise the flavour impact). FWIW, I still reckon it adversely affects the flavour and it may not be worth the effort. YMMV.
Enjoy your cuppa, whatever caffeine hit it has.
TampIt
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