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Frustrated Newbie Espresso Maker - Either too sour or too bitter

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    Here's mine.

    L-R: 1. Breville 920 double, 2. VST 18g, 3. VST20g, 4. VST22g
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]25113[/ATTACH]

    L-R: 1. Breville 920 double, 2. EPHQ 14-18g, 3. EPHQ 18-21g
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]25114[/ATTACH]
    Ok so mine must be a 920 basket. It took 18g this morning no trouble -



    Thanks mate. Very interesting.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Here's mine.

    L-R: 1. Breville 920 double, 2. VST 18g, 3. VST 20g, 4. VST 22g
    Click image for larger version

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    L-R: 1. Breville 920 double, 2. EPHQ 14-18g, 3. EPHQ 18-21g
    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by level3ninja; 16 February 2020, 10:50 PM.

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    From memory the 900 basket is 16-20g and the 920 is 18-22g. They are relatively shallow baskets but the amount the shower screen decends into the basket is also very low so they like to be dosed high.
    That’s interesting. Here’s a photo showing my Breville double shot basket next to my new 15g VST. As you can see it’s not much bigger. I bought my machine off a company that refurbished them so I wonder if I’ve ended up with what was originally a 900 basket with mine?? I’ve popped it in this morning in place of my IMS basket to see how much it comfortably fits.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    From memory the 900 basket is 16-20g and the 920 is 18-22g. They are relatively shallow baskets but the amount the shower screen decends into the basket is also very low so they like to be dosed high.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeroyC
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    20g is the standard dose for the 920. The 900 was 18g.
    Really? That’s bigger than I would’ve expected for such a shallow filter basket. I’m leaning towards lower doses on the BDB, even with an IMS filter basket. Pretty much as low as I can go for a good result.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    20g is the standard dose for the 920. The 900 was 18g.

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  • LeroyC
    replied
    Frustrated Newbie Espresso Maker - Either too sour or too bitter

    Originally posted by kexkez View Post
    I stand corrected, more sour not more bitter. sorry. That prob was what she said. anyway you tried it. It's all in the preference I guess. But something for the OP to try if they are struggling. 20 g seems a better amount of grind than the 18.5 they were using. Back to a few minor tweaks to mine now having done the course. Weighing grind not beans being the main thing.
    A 20g dose is not better than 18.5g.....unless it is. There’s lots of variables to consider when working out what dose to use and the best amount is the right amount, not the biggest amount. Basket size is just one of those variables and the standard Breville double basket isn’t particularly deep so I’d suggest that 20g could be pushing the limits of its capacity depending on the roast level of the coffee being used.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Good to hear Kaan! Yes once your machine is "good enough" the grinder is pretty much responsible for the rest of the quality capability in the equation. Buy the best grinder you can afford.

    Leave a comment:


  • kaanemec
    replied
    Hi All,


    I bought Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder. The consistency has been improved like day and night. I can now pull shots 25-30 secs with smooth, delicious, balanced non-sour taste...


    I am using single wall double basket of 920xl, fill it with 18gr coffee, pull 36-37gr espresso in 24-26secs. Tastes great.


    I suggest to everyone who comes up to this thread and looking to improve their shots, grinder is more important than you think.


    Thanks a lot to everyone who contributed to the solution!


    Best,
    Kaan

    Leave a comment:


  • CafeLotta
    replied
    Originally posted by kaanemec View Post
    Now I am considering to get a Eureka Mignon Specialita that is being sold in a local coffee appliances shop (I am in Istanbul so I do not have a wide selection of prosumer grinders to buy).
    The Eureka Mignon Specialita seems to get fairly good reviews and reportedly has fairly low retention.

    CoffeeSnobs in Istanbul....... Quite amazing the places members pop-up in!

    Leave a comment:


  • kexkez
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    So I did remember, but I thought a better experiment would be to make two long blacks and miss the first 3s for one of them. The one I missed the first 3s with tasted more smooth and rounded, mellow I guess. The full shot long black tasted fine, less uniform and rounded, but still balanced and more interesting because there was more flavour (both in strength and variety).
    I stand corrected, more sour not more bitter. sorry. That prob was what she said. anyway you tried it. It's all in the preference I guess. But something for the OP to try if they are struggling. 20 g seems a better amount of grind than the 18.5 they were using. Back to a few minor tweaks to mine now having done the course. Weighing grind not beans being the main thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • level3ninja
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    The first elements will be much more sour than bitter, typically. But to be fair I haven't tried this yet, so I can't knock it. If I remember I'll give it a go tomorrow morning by splitting a double into a long black without the first 3s, and a normal espresso.
    So I did remember, but I thought a better experiment would be to make two long blacks and miss the first 3s for one of them. The one I missed the first 3s with tasted more smooth and rounded, mellow I guess. The full shot long black tasted fine, less uniform and rounded, but still balanced and more interesting because there was more flavour (both in strength and variety).

    Leave a comment:


  • level3ninja
    replied
    It should always be the same weight, half a gram difference can change a shot a bit. I would suggest young your dose a bit too, this week also improve consistency. Try 20.0g.

    Leave a comment:


  • kaanemec
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    Are you using a set of scales to weigh the dose before every shot? If not that would be a cheap way to improve consistency dramatically. The timed output of the BCG820 is quite inconsistent.
    Yes I am weighing every time. it is always 18-18.5 grams of ground coffee before starting the shot.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Originally posted by kexkez View Post
    Just completed a barista course at yahava on wednesday. The trainer said that for a long black she always bleeds the first 3 seconds to exclude the more bitter first elements. I don't tend to drink long blacks, but that was her advice.
    The first elements will be much more sour than bitter, typically. But to be fair I haven't tried this yet, so I can't knock it. If I remember I'll give it a go tomorrow morning by splitting a double into a long black without the first 3s, and a normal espresso.

    Leave a comment:

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