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Unpressurised portafilter with Saeco Via Venezia

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  • #16
    Pressure is one of the factors in extraction. More pressure means higher extraction. If the coffee is too coarse for the pressure to build up then having a flow restriction can help build pressure. The VV does it with a small needle valve and spring in the base of the portafilter, most machines do it with a very small hole in the bottom of the basket. As to how it provides a reasonable result, it doesn't really.

    Tamping largely only effects the time it takes for the first drop off coffee to appear, after that the shot will run largely the same.

    If the shot's Only taking 10s you either need a better grinder or fresher beans.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
      Pressure is one of the factors in extraction. More pressure means higher extraction. If the coffee is too coarse for the pressure to build up then having a flow restriction can help build pressure. The VV does it with a small needle valve and spring in the base of the portafilter, most machines do it with a very small hole in the bottom of the basket. As to how it provides a reasonable result, it doesn't really.

      Tamping largely only effects the time it takes for the first drop off coffee to appear, after that the shot will run largely the same.

      If the shot's Only taking 10s you either need a better grinder or fresher beans.
      Thanks Ninja! Yes I think that I'm really trying to get blood out of a stone when I know I need a better grinder. I ordered a 'too good to be true' grinder of Facebook and am waiting for it to arrive.When the inevitable happens and it is really no good, I'll start looking for a half decent one.

      Any suggestions for a grinder that is next level without going too far price-wise? Remember, at this stage we are still talking about a Via Venezia.

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      • #18
        Thought the Via Venezia was the bees knees when I first got it hence the username. But a short barista course soon changed that opinion. I bought an unpressurised basket for it which also required a new group handle. This then required a grinder upgrade which, in my case, was to a used commercial grinder. This then led to many hours of frustration with inconsistent coffee from a machine that wasn't designed to be pushed into true espresso territory. It comes with the pressurised portafilter for a reason. My suggestion is either to continue using it with the pressurised basket and cheap grinder you have (assuming you find the coffee acceptable) or upgrade everything. I can't remember all the things that went wrong with mine (over 10 years ago) but I do remember the frustration.

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        • #19
          Something like a second hand Sunbeam EM0480 or Breville smart grinder should be fine.

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          • DonPolo
            DonPolo commented
            Editing a comment
            Wow thanks for the advice about the EM0480. I was getting a bit desperate and was even thinking of using one of those spice grinder thingies. I know it is sacrilege but at least I could get the grind down to a powder consistency even though I know it would lack uniformity of grain size. Had a Breville smart grinder until the nylon impeller wore out. I understand they now have a metal impeller. It was a shame to ditch the Smart Grinder because of such a small part but Breville were unable to supply a replacement part.

        • #20
          Hi,
          I am still using my ~10 year old Via Venezia and I have a few tips. Removing all of the pressurised parts from the portafilter is a really good start.
          These machines are configured to run at a high pressure (~15 bar) which is much too high. Fortunately there is an OPV (over pressure valve) which can be adjusted to reduce the maximum pressure. You have to do this blind as there is no pressure meter, but this has made a huge difference for me. I needed to unscrew it by 3-4 complete turns which surprised me.
          If you are interested in doing this then I can take a few photos to help to explain.
          Having a clean machine is also important. Turn the machine upside down, remove the shower screen and give the area behind the screen it a good clean.
          This video is very useful - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L53Qw5PydH0
          Drop me a message if you have any questions.
          Cheers, John

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          • #21

            Hi,

            I took a couple of photos to help to explain how to reduce the pressure using the OPV.
            Make sure all power is disconnected before opening your machine.
            Undo the nut as shown in the photo below (1). It may be quite hard to get it started. This is the main OPV adjustment. I have turned mine 4-5 complete revolutions. I made a mark with a sharpie on the nut so I could tell how far I have rotated it.
            You will also need to pull off the tube from where it feeds back into the tank while you undo the nut to stop the pipe twisting (2). It is tight, but can just be pulled off and pushed back on when you are done with the adjustment.

            Click image for larger version

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            I tested by blinding my portafilter using a generous lump of blutack and the flow back into the tank was greatly increased.

            Hope that helps.
            Cheers,
            John
            Attached Files

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            • #22
              Just continuing my notes for these old machines ...

              I have found that the large basket works well with a dose size of 20g. Getting a set of scales made a big difference in terms of controlling the variables to get a consistent result.
              If you are adjusting the OPV as per the previous post then the amount of crema is a good indication that you have the pressure about right.
              I have been using shorter extract times ~16 seconds as I find that much longer and it gets bitter. Not sure why, but it tastes better this way.
              I tried "temperature surfing" to increase the temperature a bit, but generally this made for bitter coffee. I recommend pulling your shot before frothing milk for this reason.

              I am pretty happy with what I am making now and the consistency is very good.
              Hope this is useful info.

              FYI
              I got a manual grinder to save money - https://www.oehandgrinders.com/OE-LI...nder_p_14.html
              Very accurate adjustment and consistent grind, but hard work.

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              • #23
                Well I got a new grinder: a Eureka Mignon. It has made a world of difference!

                still playing with grind and tamp but pretty pleased so far.

                I am afraid though to open it up and play with the pressure.

                PS I was thinking of buying my son a VV but it appears to not be available anywhere. Any goss of what’s happening? Has it been discontinued?

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                • level3ninja
                  level3ninja commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes they were discontinued a couple of years ago. Similar machines would be something like a Lelit PL41, Rancilio Silvia, Gaggia Classic. The Lelit also has the option to come with a PID which is well worth the money in my opinion.
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