"User Error" Broken Pump

[Lionrock]

Hi, I thought I had my Vibiemme Domobar sussed, I’ve had it 11 months and all was going well, pulling good shots etc etc, then I started having problems with the pump, it first started to always be pulling shots at 12 bars of pressure, and then started fluctuating in pressure during a shot between 8 and 12 bar, basically it was like an old car struggling to get up a hill cutting in and out of 1st and 2nd gear. Anyway I was still within the 12month warranty so I took it in. First time I got it back, they replaced a spring which they said was faulty, got it home and it was just the same, so took back in. This time they said the pump was screwed, that it was cutting out at 9 bars, and it needed to be replaced. They said the pump was not covered by the warranty because it had broken due to “User Error” explained as being down to me putting too much pressure on the pump by my grind being too fine or packing too tightly.  Now my main concern moving forward (other than being out of pocket for the pump) is that I’m doing something wrong and its going to happen again, basically I’m confused, I’m getting approximately 30 ml shots in 25 seconds, which I’ve always seen as a rough guide, and all tastes good, the gauge is still just below 12 bars, if I make my grind courser or pack less tightly then the pressure goes down but I get far more espresso than 30ml and its under extracted. Any thoughts, tips much appreciated, Thanks

[TC]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Hi, I thought I had my Vibiemme Domobar sussed, I’ve had it 11 months and all was going well, pulling good shots etc etc, then I started having problems with the pump, it first started to always be pulling shots at 12 bars of pressure, and then started fluctuating in pressure during a shot between 8 and 12 bar, basically it was like an old car struggling to get up a hill cutting in and out of 1st and 2nd gear. Anyway I was still within the 12month warranty so I took it in. First time I got it back, they replaced a spring which they said was faulty, got it home and it was just the same, so took back in. This time they said the pump was screwed, that it was cutting out at 9 bars, and it needed to be replaced. They said the pump was not covered by the warranty because it had broken due to “User Error” explained as being down to me putting too much pressure on the pump by my grind being too fine or packing too tightly.  Now my main concern moving forward (other than being out of pocket for the pump) is that I’m doing something wrong and its going to happen again, basically I’m confused, I’m getting approximately 30 ml shots in 25 seconds, which I’ve always seen as a rough guide, and all tastes good, the gauge is still just below 12 bars, if I make my grind courser or pack less tightly then the pressure goes down but I get far more espresso than 30ml and its under extracted. Any thoughts, tips much appreciated, Thanks

:-? User error hey?

Did you ask them what the over pressure valve was supposed to do then? AFAIK, the pump will not exceed the pressure as set at the over pressure valve and if an extraction is not possible due to incorrect grind or dose, then the OPV does its job...

To me, at a distance and not having seen the unit that sounds like supplier diagnostic error...Id be requesting a full explanation on that one....

[Lizzie]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Hi, I thought I had my Vibiemme Domobar sussed, I’ve had it 11 months and all was going well, pulling good shots etc etc, then I started having problems with the pump, it first started to always be pulling shots at 12 bars of pressure, and then started fluctuating in pressure during a shot between 8 and 12 bar, basically it was like an old car struggling to get up a hill cutting in and out of 1st and 2nd gear. Anyway I was still within the 12month warranty so I took it in. First time I got it back, they replaced a spring which they said was faulty, got it home and it was just the same, so took back in. This time they said the pump was screwed, that it was cutting out at 9 bars, and it needed to be replaced. They said the pump was not covered by the warranty because it had broken due to “User Error” explained as being down to me putting too much pressure on the pump by my grind being too fine or packing too tightly.  Now my main concern moving forward (other than being out of pocket for the pump) is that I’m doing something wrong and its going to happen again, basically I’m confused, I’m getting approximately 30 ml shots in 25 seconds, which I’ve always seen as a rough guide, and all tastes good, the gauge is still just below 12 bars, if I make my grind courser or pack less tightly then the pressure goes down but I get far more espresso than 30ml and its under extracted. Any thoughts, tips much appreciated, Thanks

Hi LR...
i am NOT a professional coffee machine person, merely a nosey CS with (strong... :P)  opinions, but the response from your supplier sounds like poppy-cock to me...
as 2MCM says, the OPV is designed to protect the pump:  every time you pull a shot you "put pressure on the pump" and depending on the style of shot ( all the way up to biig ristrettos) you put a lot of well tamped coffee in the basket... causing the over-pressure to safely discharge through the OPV.
when you back-flush you do the same...
your extractions seem to be spot on, i cannot for the life of me see how you would stuff up the pump with 30ml in 25 sec... :-/
and if you yourself have not adjusted the OPV at any time, so it is still sitting on factory settings, it should do its job whatever style of coffee you decide to make.

the  response  from your supplier/service centre just does not make sense; i would take it up with them again, and if they maintain their position, write them and ask them to confirm that they think that "user error", through too fine a grind/over-tamping, is the reason for the pump to fail.
once you have that black on white, you could consider to challenge their opinion through  either the manufacturer or another licensed Vibiemme service centre.
if you have decided to have the Domobar repaired, ask them to give you the faulty pump...it may come in handy if you take this further.
good luck!

L

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Ah yes.......

me thinks there is a "service centre error" occuring in addition to some kind of equipment malfunction!

You need to (politely) insist they take another look or re think their diagnosis? Remember jumping up and down gets you nowhere even when you are in the right.

Regardz,
FC.

[Lionrock]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

The service center at "Espresso Engineers" has come back and said "The OPV controls pressure within heat exchanger as opposed to the group head pressure", from the forum responses and internet research, I was under the impression that the OPV opens when too much pump pressure exists. So I dont know whos right.

The New Zealand repair agents for Vibiemme in NZ and the owner is apparently the authority on these things. So basically Im still confused and unsure as to whether this is just going to happen again, and whether I just got taken for the cost of a new pump when still under warranty.

Id love to know exactly what the story is with the OPV but given they are the repair agents for Vibiemme in NZ I dont have too many other avenues, and unfortunately the old pump has already been thrown away.

[Magic_Matt]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

The whole situation sounds dodgy to me, Id be sending a politely worded email to info@lavibiemme.it outlining the situation and asking for their advice. Given that EE are Vibiemmes sole repair agents in NZ, Vibiemme stand to lose custom there if EEs service isnt up to scratch - so they should take notice.

If its true that a 25-second, 30-mil extraction can knacker the pump, Ill be crossing Vibiemme machines off my upgrade wish list!

[Lizzie]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Hi LR...
Google : "OPV Vibiemme Domobar" and check out "The Facts" which appear at the bottom of the (non-sponsor..)"Vibiemme Espresso machine" site ...
it clearly states that the OPV is an aid to regulating group extraction pressure.

L

[TC]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Very poor conduct by them....

They are avoiding their responsibility on what should be a warranty item....

Hmmm.... >

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Lionrock,

All the discussion is irrelevant. Forget all the technobabble, you wont win any support from the service "provider" on the basis of that. You dont need techincal information for this.

Go back to your very first post above. The reason they gave you for the pumping problem is as Chris says, avoiding their responsibility.

An unfortunate fault has developed within the period of warranty.

You do not "break" a water pump from packing the coffee filter too tight or grinding too fine, as the BYPASS (if one is fitted) will bleed off (usually at factory set of around 12 bars) and bypass the flow either back to the on board water tank where fitted, or back to the inlet line before the pump for a water connect model.

There has been an unfortunate failure. It is warranted, they have an obligation to help you.

Simple as that.

Regardz,
FC.

[gregpullman]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

The service center at "Espresso Engineers" has come back and said "The OPV controls pressure within heat exchanger as opposed to the group head pressure",

So whats supposed to regulate the pump pressure then?? :-?

unfortunately the old pump has already been thrown away.

How convenient. In any case if you walked out and asked for the broken one back, you could be fairly certain theyd give you a different one that was definitely broken.

Not sure what the situation in NZ is but that sounds like something consumer affairs over here would be interested in. Id definitely be contacting head office as a first point of call.

Greg

[Lionrock]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Maybe they read this forum!!. Espresso engineers called back yesterday and said they were going to send me a cheque for the cost of the pump, no clarification re what the OPV was really for or admission re a mistake, but I figure actions speak louder, I was just after good service to match a good product . Thanks a bunch for your responses.

[Lizzie]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Wonderful news, about the cheque at least...Congratulations!
would have been nice to know their (revised???) official opinion about OPV and its function, though... :-/

Maybe they read this forum!!.

of-course they do!! CS is THE Coffee-forum to read!! ;D ;D

L

[Thundergod]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Nice one Lionrock.

[Viviane]

Re: "User Error" Broken Pump

Nice result Lionrock.