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Warning signs for a bad cafe

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  • roknee
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    most recent never again experience (and this IS quite snobbish):
    local to my work, i had seen a beautiful deep red LM FB80 (im pretty sure, but def a LM). me heart pounded harder and my mind became singally focussed on what i thought was to be great espresso close to work....but as the story goes...

    me: could i have a doppio ristretto, please
    girl at counter: (puzzled, asks next counter guy)
    counter guy also puzzled whispers to barista who then turns to me:
    "sorry what were you after?"
    me: ibid"
    barista guy starts calculating in front of me: "ok, doppio, double..thats 15mls, double, so 30ml...so two shots, right?
    me (increasingly concerned) um, just a double ristretto
    counter guy then asks mr barista how to charge me, and barista guy keeps counting to himself and starts filling pf
    charge him for two drinks
    i start to make noises about not wanting to pay for two drinks when im only ordering one, but get cut off and informed of the charge.
    $4.50 later (HOLY CRAP), i sip a fairly average ristretto while mr barista and counter guy smirk and whisper cant believe he paid $4.50 for THAT (ok, i didnt actually hear that, but I just knew...)

    so, one MORE cafe crossed off the ever-growing list of never again cafes.
    lessons learnt (again, the hard way): FB80 does not necessarily mean good coffee...

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    "Most" is more correct than "some".

    All cafes I regularly go to serve great coffee too.
    I dont frequent cafes that dont.

    Leave a comment:


  • espresso
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by Remy link=1201913196/30#32 date=1202640328
    Originally posted by greenman link=1201913196/30#31 date=1202630039
    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training.
    Aar so true.. I never thought of it like that.  Hmmm...I might have to adopt your way of ordering too me thinks...thanks for the insight on both accounts.
    Hi
    Why say most cafes when only some is true.
    ALL cafes i go to serve good coffee, ( sorry GREAT coffee )
    If you want good coffee be prepared to look for it and pay for it, dont expect it to just be there. i wish every cafe  made great coffee but they dont, which makes it better when you find the perfect cup. we could all make everything better at home, but then we would never go out.


    PS id be willing to travel 2 hours for a good coffee.

    Leave a comment:


  • Remy
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by greenman link=1201913196/30#31 date=1202630039
    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training.
    Aar so true.. I never thought of it like that. Hmmm...I might have to adopt your way of ordering too me thinks...thanks for the insight on both accounts.

    Leave a comment:


  • greenman
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    You are not on your own there, I tend to drink oj and black tea when out unless I know the outlet produces good java. Most cafes are food outlets with coffee as an afterthought served by part-time high school kids with little or no training, it is such a relief to get home to Silvia and her wonderful nectar!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Remy
    replied
    Just call me 3 flat whites

    Today I went to order 3 coffees from a regular haunt and discovered two new faces driving the coffee machine instead of the usual familiar face that we have grown to rely on, for a half decent coffee in this particular mall.  

    After watching one of the young girls make a coffee for the person in front of me, a sense of urgency came over me,..to increase the distance between myself and the coffee maker.  

    The two milk jugs were nothing short of revolting, the caked on gunge in and around the jugs,.and on the thermometers was tempting,..but nah I just wasnt up for a dose of micro-organisms with my coffee today thanks. And.. mmm mmm.. scoop some unknown ground from a dirty tin into a filllllllllllllthy portafilter (makes vomit noises),. finger the grounds on top of the portafilter,.. dont tamp at all   and pour the shot. Yummmmy : No thanks. "yooohooo girrrrrls???,..Have ya done this before???"

    Off around the corner I ran,..to what I thought at the time was the only other coffee shop in the immediate area (did a recky after and found two more for next time). It was a GJs cafe. I ordered 3 flat whites to take away (lonnnnnnnng walk back to tables we were sitting at) and as I handed the money over for them,. I heard an ear piercing shrill from the young girl(read rabid banchee woman) who was making the coffees as she shouted on the top of her lungs in her delightful  :-?  high pitched voice  > to the tables outside of the cafe and into the mall..." Order for Suzaaaaaaaaaaaane!!!!"   It gave me such a fright because I was right next to her and my right ear copped the full volume of it and it was ringing,.. in my annoyance before I could stop myself,..I said in a loud angry voice,.OH... MY... GOD...!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!! What kind of service is that??"  The girl I handed my money over to said,."Oh we have to yell really loud for them to hear out there sometimes"  Um helloooo? Have you heard of table service or buzzers???,..do ya think this might annoy your customers sitting inside??  I looked around the cafe at the customers sitting at tables inside (some were reading and got a fright too),..there were heads shaking and looks of astonishment all round.

    Sooh,.. then the girl taking my order asked me for my name and after what Id just heard,..I imagined hearing my name screamed into the mall by a rabid banchee woman and said,.."um,... I dont think so,...... three flat whites"

    While waiting close by,.. in the hope of gesturing to the banchee that I am three flat whites to save her voice and our ears of further damage,.. I watched the coffee making process and ack.... please change your cloth more often,.. putting that filthy black(from coffee) cloth into the portafilter where my coffee is about to be poured through is a huuuge turn-off.  The coffee tasted ok,.. but I couldnt get that dirty cloth out of my mind. *note to self,.. never go there again*

    I dont know what I prefer,.. the first cafe just banged the portafilter (no wipe out) and into the wet and dirty portafilter the next lot of grounds were dumped,.... or a wipe ( 1 sec sweep rather) with a dirty black cloth.

    Oh my!!.... I am such a snob.. I must be... I cannot help noticing all this stuff now,.. being a coffee snob is tough,.. I am enjoying coffee out less and less.

    Leave a comment:


  • snooooze
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Well said Le I bet you will find a clean wand and not so full doser in Go. cafe Goomalling W.A.

    We have a bakery here that has a Boema single group. The porta filter handle is NEVER taken out of its group. The coffee is made with instant and whole machine just used to heat/foam/fry/RUIN the milk.

    One should always look for a grinder.

    its funny the same guy ones the only other bakery and it has the works...makes OK coffee.....</me wonders about some ppl>

    Leave a comment:


  • Sketchy
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/15#17 date=1202087282
    Originally posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#11 date=1202036287
    Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/0#8 date=1202034325
    Originally posted by Dennis link=1201913196/0#7 date=1202030660
    pre-ground decaf kept in a tupperware container  :P
    not everyone has the luxury for a decaf grinder....not enough decaf volume for most places to justify another $800ish for a mazzer mini. And I dont think spending $200 on a Sunbeam grinder "cuts it".
    I dont accept that at all.  Since when is a grinder a luxury when you run a cafe?  Especially when charging $3.50.  A jolly for $650 would not be such a big outlay and do the job.
    Ok lets look at it like this. Decaf is sold to cafes for much more than their regular blend of caffienated coffee. Lets ignore this part for now...say they make $3 net profit (excluding paying bills, wages and other overheads etc), you will need to make over 200 decaf coffees to recoup your money on the grinder. Over 200 cups of decaf....that will probably take me 1 year to do, I make probably 1 cup of decaf, if that per day. Considering most cafes have free on loan machine and grinder, why pay for another grinder? Thats the mindset of many cafe owners...they have much bigger problems to deal with than one cup of decaf a day.

    Ive worked at many places that have done 20kg/week, 90kg/week and even 120kg/week of coffee....decaf made up less than 1% of the volume.

    Everyone at the end of the day has other priorities...decaf I would imagine would be the last of their problems. And it would be very unfair to damn a cafe and/or an excellent barista because his boss hasnt splashed money on a decaf grinder.
    Hi
    As a cafe owner i have to say that as mentioned earlier i have 2 grinders, i grind fresh to order both decaf and regular, i own all my own equipment (youd be crazy to sign a contract), and i only turn out 6 kgs a week of regular & under 1/2kg decaf. I dont know where you get your pricing from as i have always paid the same for decaf as regular, except for once when i tried organic.
    It all boils down to a love of good coffee whether its decaf or regular, we should only serve what we would drink ourselves.
    I would never sell stale bread because i only like rolls why would i sell stale decaf if i only drink regular.

    LE

    PS I say support the cafes that truely love coffee & forget the ones that only pretend they do

    Leave a comment:


  • askthecoffeeguy
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by luca link=1201913196/15#22 date=1202119584
    I agree that it would be great to see a decaf grinder in every cafe, but I think that getting fresh coffee into every cafe is a higher priority, and if that means stale decaf, so be it. Id rather have a cafe serving fresh regular coffee and stale decaf than stale regular coffee and stale decaf.

    Cheers,

    Luca
    cant agree with you there luca - to me its gotta be the complete package or not at all...

    Leave a comment:


  • Wushoes
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Excellent posy Donnas650. The last 2 sentences say it all really.

    Leave a comment:


  • donnas650
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Some of the signs I have seen have already been mentioned such as portafilter not rinsed or wiped between coffees, showersceen not flushed, milk being heated after being wand being placed in jug and barista not being present, milk added to old milk that was sitting(a la *bucks) after last coffee, skim milk being used when I asked for a latte or flat white(if I wanted skim milk I would have asked).

    I used to pay attention to the machine before ordering(and I still do), but I no longer assume that someone behind a LM or Synesso is going to make a good coffee because of the equipment. I also saw some very questionable tamping techniques last year at a cafe chain when I was waiting for the Christmas Pageant to go past. The coffee was terrible.

    I remember reading something where someone said to observe the barista while they make a couple of coffees before you buy. Obviously we dont all have time for this and are really after a coffee. I normally try to try new places. Some places I just wont go to as they look like they arent serious about coffee. It is just a hunch.

    It also helps with a barista is handy when you want a coffee from a coffee shop. I went to a decent place in Adelaide who seem serious about their coffee and ordered a flat white. I had to wait about 8 mins(I was the only one waiting) and I only had 45 mins for lunch inc. the drive there and back. A young guy told me he was unable to make coffee and the person who made the coffee was on the phone. Not cool to have 3 people working in a coffee shop(not cafe) and only one being able to make coffee.

    I had one of the worst coffee experiences ever last year at a new place that opened up in Adelaide. Too many negatives and the worst part was that the coffee was bad.

    I have read enough things to know what a lot of places can do to improve their cafes. It comes down to training, quality, pride and seriousness to name a few. And obviously the right practices.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Just one minor question/comment I believe may effect those careful calculations...

    Do you think supplying companies (and lets face it, were talking about some big players here) pay retail prices for a grinder? I dont.

    Disclaimer: Its not me thats the one who drinks decaf! : :P

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    I agree with everything you have said Luca...

    Big companies have marketing budgets and this is where a dedicated decaf grinder can come in.

    If its good for the brand and public perception of the brand, there has to be some justification for outlaying the $$$.

    Id be much happier to see a K3T as a dedicated decaf grinder than stale stuff out of tupperware which would imply lack of interest by both the coffee supllier and the cafe operator. The decaf custoimer deserves respect too- even if I wouldnt drink the stuff. :

    Sometimes you gotta spend the bucks

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • luca
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1201913196/15#18 date=1202087893
    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...
    At 1/2 kg of decaf per week for 50 weeks, the supplying companies would have to charge an extra $32 per kg of decaf to cover the cost of an $800 mazzer mini in a year:

    50 weeks * 1/2kg = 25 kilos/year
    $800/25 = $32

    If you want to incorporate the cost into the overall cost of coffee, a 10kg/week cafe (including decaf) would be paying an extra $1.60/kg to cover the cost of an $800 mini in a year:

    50 weeks * 10kg = 500 kg/year
    $800/500 = $1.60

    It strikes me that either one of those scenarios could easily render a coffee company uncompetitive in the eyes of a cafe owner who doesnt really give a damn about coffee. IMHO, I think that the onus is best placed on the cafe owners to make the decision. Baby steps - lets get them on to fresh coffee first, then when they see the increase in business and customer satisfaction over the stale crap that they used to be using, the sales reps can bring up the idea of buying a grinder.

    Personally, I think that the whole price per kg model ought to be as transparent as possible. Transparency is a selling point to even the most cynical, money-hungry cafe owner. However, you cant use transparency to get a decaf grinder into a cafe until the cafe owner appreciates the merits of fresh regular coffee and they might well never appreciate the merits of fresh regular coffee unless it is as price-competitive as possible.

    I agree that it would be great to see a decaf grinder in every cafe, but I think that getting fresh coffee into every cafe is a higher priority, and if that means stale decaf, so be it. Id rather have a cafe serving fresh regular coffee and stale decaf than stale regular coffee and stale decaf.

    Cheers,

    Luca

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: Warning signs for a bad cafe

    Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1201913196/15#20 date=1202088688
    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1201913196/15#18 date=1202087893
    We all know that equipment is factored into the per kilo buy price for those on freebie agreements...
    Chris
    Too true...if only most places knew how much money theyre hemmoraging on contracts like that. They should bite the bullet...spend $10,000 on machine and 2 grinders and be done with it. That way you own the machines for life, and pay cheaper prices for coffee
    ...thankyou! ;D

    Leave a comment:

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