Re: Bitter coffee??
Hot machines you can play with to get it right. Grinder.... new blades. I just changed my blades on both k10s after 7 weeks and 9 weeks on the other. 180 dollars a hit on each blade. Looks like thats gonna cost me over $1000 on blades a year!! Coffee is a lot cleaner with new blades.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Hang in there Dave and you will be rewarded once you get a consistent routine.
Things could never get so bad as to going back to "Blend 43". Ive banned it in our pantry!!
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Hey Mal...
Thanks - I am starting to get it I think
In my darker moments I glance back at the lonely jar of Blend 43...
(but only for a second ;D)
Cheers
Dave
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Hi Dave,Originally posted by Dave_D link=1202712707/15#15 date=1203403843that grind and tamp vary between coffees and even within the same lot as it ages...would you say that it is fair to say that dosing also varies as the bean ages?
You should get to a point with the elements of the preparation process, that the only element you change is just the grind setting..... Everything else should remain the same. By trying to juggle all the elements at the same (or different) time you will end up with a very hit and miss outcome with your espresso shots. Practice to become consistent with your dosing, distribution, and tamp and only vary the grind setting to get the outcome youre looking for.....
Cheers,
Mal.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Hi Greg...thanks for your response
Ill give that whirl.
Since last posting I have been experimenting with dosing also, and while I think that there is a tendency with this coffee towards bitterness, I think that I was over-dosing.
I have come to appreciate (through this forum) that grind and tamp vary between coffees and even within the same lot as it ages...would you say that it is fair to say that dosing also varies as the bean ages?
cheers
Dave
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Id be trying a ristretto to see if the basic bean is bitter. Caffeine is very bitter and a ristretto (try for 20 ml espresso in about 20 seconds) has less caffeine than a standard espresso.
You can also check this by running the first 15 ml in one cup and the second 15 ml in a second cup. Try both and taste the difference, then combine them and taste again.
Greg
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Gday Mal...
Thanks again for the response.
I would have sounded a bit eager...but I was in fact only trying one adjustment per shot (after reading that somewhere else here
).
Great idea on the plunger though.
My wife went down to the supplier and had a chat and they gave her 250gm of a different blend for free to try - so that was pretty fair I guess.
It seems OK so far.
cheers mate
Dave
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Hi again Dave,
Id try changing only one thing at a time rather employ all of the changes, things to try, etc in one go. Try the Temperature Surfing/Cooling Flush for a few shots and see how that performs, then very slightly coarsen the grind..... Not to forget trying your coffee on another decent machine, just to make sure the coffee itself is not intrinsically bitter. Stranger things have happened
One thing I do if Im trying someone elses coffee for the first time, is to to make a plunger brew or direct in cup, to get a feel for the overall flavour characteristics. At least this would ensure you get a heads-up warning of any unsavoury nuances before getting stuck into an espresso.
Cheers mate
,
Mal.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
bodgy
Coincidentally I used the word in conversation today.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Thanks to you all for your suggestions and information...
I have been trying a slightly coarser grind and marginally less firm tamp and probably about 50% of the bitterness has disappeared - this has rendered the quicker shot that Mal alluded to earlier.
The crema is still a bit bodgy (ah that word from my youth :
).
Not sure but it seems that the real edge to the taste is actually in the crema as against the dark liquid of the coffee.
Have also tried running a cooling shot through prior to the actual shot...so perhaps it is a combination of many suggestions that is helping.
Actually...it is now about half an hour since the last shot and the bitterness is still hanging around...
anyway - thanks again
Dave
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Dave_D
Yup what they all said......
Also, if you really want a bitter taste experience, .....lick a sudafed!!!!.
Suggest you ask the cafe/roaster to pull you a shot with the same blend.
This will be you benchmark, on how it should taste.
If it still tastes bitter, thats probably reflective of their blend
There is an infinite variety of all kinds of roast blends and they can "tailored" for different characteristics: eg Sweet, Chocolatey, fruity, fruity [sour], etc.
Many blends are designed to "cut through" milk and generally these will have a higher bitterness, also "robusta" is often added to blends [to increase the caffiene kick] and this also adds bitterness.
So you ideally you should be able to discuss your taste preferences with the roaster/cafe.
Suggest you try coffee from here, ie: Coffeesnobs Brown: Andys espresso "wow" is very impressive, rich complex and not too bitter.
I can also vouch for site sponsor: Veneziano Cafe: try their "Estate" or "Bella Vita".
<======There are many other CS Roaster/site sponsors over here,
and all will be able to guide you/provide you with great coffee.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
FYI: My most memorable shot came from a Classic (with PID control and OPV adjusted, MDF grinder). It tasted like chocolate mousse. Ive never had anything like it since. So the machine is definitely capable of delivering.
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Thanks for the informative response Pat...cleanliness is indeed next to coff-liness...the rinsing and wiping that you suggest have become part of my ritual.
Along with Mals suggestion, I am going to work on the grind, tamp and pour (if that is the right term) time...over-extraction could well be a contributer.
Thanks
Dave
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Re: Bitter coffee??
The Classic runs notoriously hot - try running a cooling shot of water through the machine before extracting the coffee.
When I had th same machine I only used the double handle and got much better shots.
The machine is also very sensitive to dose, tamp, and grind - so dont add too much coffee, try adjusting you grind, and tamp with firm but not too much strength
And over-extraction is another cause of bitterness. How long are you running your shots for? 30 ml max for a single and say 45ml max for a double will help to reduce this. Make sure you also place the clean handle back in the machine very shortly after extracting the shot - run some water through it and jiggle it back and forth to flush out any built up grind.
Then give the shower screen and surrounding area a wipe down with a clean cloth
Ohh.. and make sure you always wipe out the basket of your handle before adding fresh coffee
Hope this helps - Pat
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Re: Bitter coffee??
Will do...thanks Mal
I guess like any learning curve...you dont really appreciate how much there is to learn until you kick it off and hook in
Cheers,
Dave
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