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  • The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    Whilst I am over the moon with my new Giotto and ECM grinder, I have a general gripe and I sense that there will be some that share my views on this.

    From the outset, let me say that I am absolutely in love with my new toys - they are producing results that I could only have dreamed about previously - and I know that our freshly roasted beans are in many ways responsible.  But.......

    A coffee machine with a retail price of about $2500 comes with a crappy plastic tamper thats the wrong size, no brushes and no blind filter.  Wouldnt it be nice if these were part of the deal? - No doubt they are offered by some retailers, but I really think they should be in the box - and paid for by ECM.

    I ordered a group head brush, Duralex glasses, some cups, a blind filter and a beautiful stainless 58mm tamper from Coffee Parts on Thursday night last week and they arrived this morning.  What terrific people they are to deal with.

    The new tamper works a treat - and I wouldnt expect something of this quality to come as a "free" inclusion, but fair dinkum.  Why the &*$#  are ECM (and others?) putting a 50mm piece of garbage in with a machine that (obviously) has an e-61 group head with 58mm baskets?  It looks as if its been made with recycled Bic biro caps.

    It shouldnt be the responsibility of the retailer/wholesaler to give these items to their customers - but why the &*#% should we pay for them when theyre essential for the general performance and maintenance of the machine.  What do other HX machines come with?
    Any comments?

  • #2
    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

    It could be worse - it could be like a car where you would have to take it back to the dealer for a service/back flush!

    My machine came with the plastic tamper as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

      My $599 Sunbeam came with everything but a brush. Yippee! 8-)

      Most expensive machines wont come with those items but the retailer throws it in most of the time. I know Danes in Brookvale do. You also get a course that teaches you to make the most of that particular machine.

      Have to shop around for a good offer and best service, I suppose.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

        Our machine came with the usual cheap plastic tamper that does fit, and a blind filter. Also came with hoses for plumbing, as well as a length of hose for the drip tray. We bought brushes, a stainless steel tamp, a 600ml frothing jug and detergent.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

          Like everyone else I could not believe the undersized plastic tamper which came with the Silvia. That was months ago. Now, Im changing my mind. At the risk of opening up old threads (and wounds) its not the material from which it is made that counts, but the pressure applied to that material.

          I alternate between my homemade wooden one, and the plastic one. They do the job, and thats what counts.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

            Id tend to agree, Robusto - nearly two years of living with a plastic tamp for the sunbeam, I was getting really good results with the plastic tamp/scoop.

            With the expobar and a slightly more expensive s/s tamp ($27, a mm too small), Im getting more channelling ... but the shots taste better!

            So, you can get really good results with a plastic tamp - its harder work though. Having a heavy s/s tamp that fits perfectly makes things so much easier.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

              I agree with mattyj. Theres a lot to be said for the pressure you exert on the tamp. Ive used a crappy plastic one for nearly 20 years. It seems to do the job. The other tamps certainly look nice - I might even succomb one day.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                Yes, a case of: If its talked about in awe, is shiny, made from solid stainless steel, and is expensive -- then it must be a superior toy-- er, essential piece of equipment which no self-respecting amateur domestic barrista can do without.

                As for other dissuasive negatives, like wood is a repository for bacteria, so dont get a wooden tamper.... Generations of my family (including mois) should be dead from wooden bread boards, mortar and pestles, butchers blocks and..... not to mention laminated wooden bench tops.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                  Originally posted by robusto link=1124692273/0#7 date=1124706209
                  Yes, a case of: If its talked about in awe, is shiny, made from solid stainless steel, and is expensive -- then it must be a superior toy-- er, essential piece of equipment which no self-respecting amateur domestic barrista can do without.
                  Robusto - I totally agree with you. My objection to the tamper that came with my machine is that its a 50mm one when it should be 58mm. Id happily live with it if it was the right size. I think that when it comes to tampers size matters - probably not much else does apart from whatever turns people on aesthetically. Someone was selling a Silvia here not so long ago with a portafilter with a turned wooden handle. Not to my taste, certainly (in fact Id go so far as to say it was one of the nastiest things Id ever seen )- and I dare say it made no difference to the quality of shots the machine was producing. Unless it was Rosewood, (for some reason the most revered material for fetish tamper handles) - and I dont think it was 8-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                    Contrary to popular belief, wood is not a bacterial haven. The wood contains tanins which are a natural inhibitor to bacterial growth. As long as the wood is dry, the tanins do their job very well. Wood becomes a problem when it is used consistently wet. Since the wood is porous, it does absorb things like blood, and other fluids. Since the tamper is never in contact with - god forbid - uncooked meat, poultry, or fish, there is nothing wrong with using wooden ones.

                    Youd be more likely to come across mould on a wooden tamper than bacteria, who knows...it may even add some flavour to the shot :P

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                      Just used my wooden tamper on a SO Colombian.  Tasted... meaty, kinda fowl, with just an essence of barramundi, and a rich blood-red body.   :-[

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                        If grilled, it might go well with a bearnaise sauce.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                          Gentlemen,

                          yes I think it should be up to the manufacturer....

                          However, if the manufacturer hasnt coffed up, its the importers responsibility (I think), to make it so.

                          My Diadema Juniors & Unico Splendors come with the blind, the group brush, CORRECT SIZED (there are some that arent) doser spoon, 2 group handles & deep commercial filters, owner booklet...but they have been coming in with the stupid undersized tamper.

                          I will agree...its not the fact its plastic (my best tamper is plastic)...its the fact that it is the wrong size, and out by a mile not a millimeter! So....I have begged the manufacturer to make them the correct size (and a little less flimsy) in the latest consignment of machines (arriving this week)....we will see what the cat drags in when they arrive. If he hasnt, I will have to take steps.....

                          There are other issues to "understand".

                          The manufacturers dont necessarily take seriously that anyone is actually going to use some of the stuff provided...eg the doser spoon and the tamper...they fully expect you are going to use a doser grinder with fixed tamp on the grinder...thats what they do. I am not "apologising" for them, just stating the fact.

                          The other issue is that of individual "deals". Some people "steal" the machine off their vendor, in which case they get what they get. The client that goes a little easier, pays the full or close to RRP, gets the pre delivery service, atleast an hours instruction, and usually walks away with a nice tamper, a milk jug, thermometer and a kilo or 2 of coffee beans...so it depends on what kind of hard ball the client wants to play.... people who steal the machine, often just get a machine in a box without some nice extras, sometimes without a pre delivery service, and have to go home and set up themselves and go through a very painful and slow period of "am I doing this right", and "why doesnt this work properly" because they actually did themsleves out of the after sales service.....nuthins for nuthin, cause and effect!

                          Now I am waiting with anticipation to see what kind of tamper my manufacturer has provided this time....

                          Hope this all helps.


                          Regardz,
                          FC.

                          PS.....I am not inferring any of you "stole" your equipment   , although if you secured good deals, well good for you. I am merely stating the general case.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                            FC:

                            It seems to be an italian tradition to supply an undersize plastic tamper worth 50 cents with their expensive espresso machines.

                            It does perplex me though. It is a good opportunity to supply a lovely tamper with their logo on it.

                            Grant

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The extras arent hidden - you buy your own

                              Yes Grant, I agree entirely.  Our "good" tampers have our logo lasered on! The client never forgets...just like they never forget the original crappy undersized tamper supplied in the box.

                              Ive asked them ( the manufacturers) why they do this...youll never get an answer that makes sense. So for this consignment I told them what I wanted...and well see what the outcome is.

                              Mind you, the tamper is nothing more than a little thorn in the side of not much consequence as I think most people go chasing something stylish that they like...not supplying a blind filter would be inexcusable, suppying an incorrectky sized doser spoon would be more than STUPID. Group brushes are a relatively new phenomenon, so a manufacturer that supplies one is "thoughtful", one that doesnt can still be excused at this point.

                              Mind you except for the blind filter I dont think these are strictly  "necessary"
                              just nice....probably more of a tradition to supply something....anything to the client.

                              S0 whats next....should we place a cleaning brush in with all grinders? That would be a nice, thoughtful touch but once again...unnecessary!


                              Regardz,
                              FC.

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