Why the taste difference from different machines?

[NewToEspresso]

Using exactly the same beans and same brand of milk both at home and at work, I get different tastes from them. As stated many times before, I use a Gaggia Carezza at work with a Delonghi KG100 grinder and a silvia and Rocky at home. My drink of choice is a latte with a little sugar (trying to wean off the sugar).
On the Carezza, the lattes I get are very often quite chocolatey and Ive grown to like that taste (Ive had the Gaggia longer than the silvia). In fact, I think the chocolate flavours are the dominant flavours.
In contrast, with the silvia, I dont get chocolate flavours all that much. I get varying flavours depending on bean type but cant recall them tasting like the ones I get on the gaggia.
However, at work, it doesnt seem to matter which bean I use, whether its Guatemalan SHB, or PNG Sigri or Timor Leste, I seem to get pretty much the same chocolatey flavours (which I quite like). With the silvia, it differs widely depending on bean. I think I did come close to the tastes i got on the Gaggia when i put through the Indian monsooned Malabar in the silvia. Apart from that, they vary quite a bit...
Any opinions as to why its so?

[JavaB]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

NTE,

A KG100.... even a "modified" version which will grind finer..... doesnt come within a mile of the grind quality of the Rocky..... the burrs wobble and grind size is very inconsistent.. with lots of fines..... you are probably getting a "bitter" chocolate flavour.... from all beans!!

The subtle flavour differences become more intense as the quality of the grinder improves (the coffee machine - assuming it is adequate as yours are - makes very little, if any difference)....

I found the KG100 useless, the La Cimbali junior grinder was a quantum leap in taste in the cup..... now the DRM (combined conical/flat grinder) produces espresso which blows me away with subtlety in tastes which I hadnt found in the beans before.....

Its all about the grinder..... take your Rocky to work and try your beans in that.... you will notice quite a difference....

[marcstolk]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

I agree with JavaB,

The Delonghis main failure is the burr itself (The carrier is a shocker in itself)... it doesnt have the upper bean crunching section before the beans hit the low end of the burr to do the finer grind...

What JavaB is saying is spot on. Im getting flavours from the SJ where the Sunbeam grinder wouldnt...

If I could afford a Mazzer Robur, Id have one! :-)

[reubster]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin



NTE

Just adding my own experience to the comments above:
When I first got my very used Compak K8, the burrs were very blunt and produced a significant ammount of fines[dust]

In the cup, this tended to muddy the flavour for all beans, so any individual characteristics were indistinguishable.
All the shots had a similar thick bitter overtone [bitter chocolate as described by JavaB] which I attributed to the fact that fines were basically being overextracted [blonding].
[I also noticed the pours were blonder in colour with the old burrs.]

The difference was amazing when I got new burrs, it was like the coffee came alive.

Sounds like OBU [Occupational based Upgradeitis] has just struck.
My advise: Take the rocky to work and go for an even better grinder at home.

[NewToEspresso]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

I didnt really try the espresso from the office setup though, but when I did take the occassional sip, it wasnt the most palatable. I think I did recall some bitterness, whereas with the silvia, espressos were quite palatable. Now, I dont enjoy espressos (yet), so Im not able to give a better description than that.
Thing is, I quite like the chocolatey lattes I make in my office and Im wondering why I cant seem to get that at home.

[JavaB]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

Thing is, I quite like the chocolatey lattes I make in my office and Im wondering why I cant seem to get that at home.

Well in milk the bitterness wont be as apparent..... but to an espresso drinker :P

With a good grinder.... only some beans will taste strongly of dark chocolate... other, more interesting flavours will be apparent.

Easy answer - swap grinders!!! (But dont ask any espresso drinkers to have one from your home machine if you do!).....

[NewToEspresso]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

Sounds like OBU [Occupational based Upgradeitis] has just struck.
My advise: Take the rocky to work and go for an even better grinder at home.

The missus aint going to like that suggestion. As it is, she thinks Ive spent too much on coffee already, but her main tiff with the Mazzers would be their size. The rocky is less imposing than the Mazzers and she actually liked the Breville Bar Aroma grinder because it was small and inconspicuous on the kitchen bench. When I changed over to the rocky, there was a bit of muttering...

[Dimal]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

The missus aint going to like that suggestion. As it is, she thinks Ive spent too much on coffee already, but her main tiff with the Mazzers would be their size. The rocky is less imposing than the Mazzers and she actually liked the Breville Bar Aroma grinder because it was small and inconspicuous on the kitchen bench. When I changed over to the rocky, there was a bit of muttering...

It isnt necessarily all about size NtE, more to do with quality of manufacture and the tight tolerances that commercial quality grinders are held to.

Have a look at any of the Macap line of grinders, the Anfim Best, etc.... They are not huge by comparison with full-on commercial grinders but they are made to the same high standards of quality which, in a nutshell, ensure that the burr-plates are maintained in accurate planar relationship regardless of the grind setting..... Thats what is really all about 8-).

The Rocky is a great little grinder in its own right, I owned one for several years. However, when I upgraded to the LSM I own now, there was a distinct quality shift in the nature of the shots I poured or with any brew method for that matter. Its not so much that the LSM is bigger than the Rocky that makes the difference, its all down to the high level of precision that the grinding components are manufactured to.

It would really be worth it for you to, one day, upgrade the Rocky to one of the smaller commercial types often mentioned and that would be the last time youd need to upgrade the grinder..... ever.

All the best ,
Mal.

[Dolcimelo]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

Hi NTE,
Also, check out Jim Schulmans findings here: http://www.home-barista.com/forums/t...-t4499-40.html

Food for thought. If you do upgrade, the smart option would be a Super Jolly or else a conical - big footprint either way!

matt

[GregWormald]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

Im going to suggest something completely different. Since you seem to like the flavour of the coffee from the cheap grinder--buy another one and sell the Rocky.  
Instant satisfaction--wife likes the smaller footprint, you get the chocolate flavour you like, you save money, and no more upgraditis!
Greg

[NewToEspresso]

Re: Why the taste difference from different machin

A minor twist in the tale of the 2 machines...
Whilst I cant comment too much on the taste being inexperienced in espresso tasting, the crema that comes out of the Delonghi grinder one seems to be darker and redder which provides a nicer backdrop for a rosetta.

The rosettas Ive made from the Silvia/ Rocky doesnt seem to have as much a contrast in colour between the rosetta leaves and the crema background as compared to the Delonghi/ gaggia.