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Expensive or what?

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  • Expensive or what?

    When we are in Canberra we always have a coffee or ten with our coffee-loving Daughter at one of the 'ONA' cafes.
    For my birthday she surprised me with a pack of this:



    Other than the variety "Geisha" the product is unknown to me and I wouldn't even be telling you about it if it were not for the astronomical price .
    The 200g bag I received direct from the retailer was accompanied by a copy of the invoice for $72. - which runs out at $360./kilo.
    Now I know Andy has/has had Jamaica Blue Mountain and another Geisha variety on Beanbay (a lot cheaper) and whilst I appreciate my Daughter's thoughtfulness in giving me something unusual and expensive I do wonder what (if anything) justifies this kind of price for a bean.
    (I am wondering if I am going to be able to do justice to it on my Diadema - there WILL be NO failed shots!)

  • #2
    Seems pricey alright; maybe Andy or one of our Site Sponsors has some insight into origins and value...

    Mal.

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    • #3
      Nah, I can't shed much specific light Mal except it is what it is.

      Ona might land the green beans for $100/kg or $300/kg and the retail price of the roasted is what they charge. Only the end user determines if it's value or not.

      Similar to red wine...
      Click image for larger version

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      ...but the big difference with a red is the longer you keep it the more it's prob worth.

      Lets say Ona land a $200/kg coffee, they roast 5kg green ($1000), yielding 4kg brown @ $250/kg raw material cost price.
      Add in labour, roaster maintenance, rent, packaging etc etc and the price rises fast.
      If they don't sell it in a couple of weeks they'll have to drink the leftovers, while drinking great coffee is normally a good problem to have it doesn't pay the bills. You can get over $300/kg pretty fast.

      Most Panama Geisha's we have landed have been in the $100-$150 range green, the highest was the La Mula at $280/kg which was an amazing coffee but a serious price tag.

      ...do justice to it on my Diadema
      I expect it will be super light roasted and might suck on an espresso machine.
      Filter, pour-over, plunger might be better options to get the big florals and crazy fruits from most geisha beans.

      Enjoy the experiance!

      Comment


      • #4
        Lucky boy Rocky! I am a big fan of anything ONA rates at 90+ on their own scoring system. My bank account not so much!

        Here's the brew guide from their website:
        AGE BEST USED 14-30 days after roast
        METHOD Espresso
        DOSE 20.5g
        BREW WEIGHT 42g
        TIME 27-30 seconds
        TEMPERATURE 93°C

        Note that the time above is full pressure like on a commercial machine with a rotary pump, I've found I need to give their times a few extra seconds. Also the age best used is uncannily accurate. I had some high scoring filter from them once and it smelled like fresh cut grass up to and including the day before they said, then just smelled amazing on the first day they said to use it. They always seem to drop off around when they say too. Some say 4-30 days, others something like 14-21, but they are on the money every time.

        Full description from the website:

        RESERVE ESPRESSO
        Panama Savage Coffee ‘Spectrum’, CM


        SINGLE ORIGIN – ESPRESSO 200g

        The ‘Spectrum’ lot is from Savage Coffees, a project by renowned coffee producer Jamison Savage. For several years he has been producing exceptional coffees using carbonic maceration methods. In collaboration with our green bean producer Project Origin, Jamison created the ‘Spectrum’ lot by placing the whole coffee cherries into an anaerobic, or oxygen-free environment before flushing it with CO2. The coffee is left in this state to ferment for extended periods, before being removed and further processed as a washed coffee. The ‘carbonic’ CO2 environment allows the coffee to ferment slowly and for longer periods of time without risking over-fermentation.

        An exceptional example of how extended fermentation combines with traditional washed processing, this geisha has notes of white florals, green grape, lime and bergamot.

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        • #5
          It’s essentially one of their own as it’s come via Project Origin. Looks like a large part of the expense has come from the experimental and somewhat risky processing method. It also looks like this one has been roasted specifically for espresso.

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          • #6
            Thanks for your comments Guys, coming Friday might be the 'big day' to give it a run. Then I will decide whether to spring it on my Son on the weekend.
            I will Espresso it first and then maybe give it a try using some other methods.
            I haven't opened the pack yet so no idea what the roast looks like. I will play it by ear from there. Some fun to look forward to this week.

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            • #7
              Look forward to your thoughts on your gift...... do you have any preconceived expectations? As in maybe blow your taste buds outta your head or just another exceptionally nice coffee?

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              • #8
                All I can say is..................... Ona know their stuff. Exceptional beans wow... wish I could share that brew with ya! ENJOY. Please let us know how you find them!

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                • #9
                  One of the things that's halfway objective about coffee like this is that it should be complex. When you taste it, you should taste a lot of different things. Whether or not they are things that you like is another matter. This is probably the thing that really separates the coffees that command the most money from the ones that merely command a hell of a lot of money. Well, that and the distinctiveness and intensity of flavour. There are a variety of more experimental processes that are being applied; some of them seem to work; others are utterly terrible, to my tastes, but that doesn't stop them finding buyers who will pay a high price.

                  With something so pricey, it might help to know what to look for. There's basically three things in a more classic washed panama geisha type cup, which is what you should be getting here, hopefully. First up, some sort of distinct citrus zest type aroma. Maybe bergamot (like earl grey tea), maybe lime zest. Next, some sort of sweet fruit type flavour. Maybe something like a stonefruit or a canteloupe. Finally, if you're lucky, some sort of floral aroma. Maybe jasmine, maybe coffee blossom if you're really lucky. If you drink long blacks, you might find that that's the best way that it performs if you run it through the espresso machine. First, hopefully the roast will have preserved a lot of aroma, which means that it will probably have some acidity, so if you have a lot of water, you will have more carbonate to counter the acidity. Second, it's generally easier to taste more complexity at higher dilutions.

                  Good luck!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only thing I’d add to what Luca said is that this isn’t a traditional washed coffee. It’s been processed using the carbonic maceration method and I think I read that it’s had 2 or 3 passes. I still don’t know heaps about carbon maceration other than Sasa Sestic has been an exponent of it for a number of years and was essentially responsible for bringing it to market as the coffee he used at WBC ‘15 was processed this way. It’s a method stolen from the wine industry. I think it’s an anerobic type of fermentation, but not 100% sure. I can’t remember if Sestic found a producer using it in 2015 or the producer used it at his request. Interesting stuff though and it’ll all the on the Ona or Project Origin websites somewhere.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LeroyC View Post
                      The only thing I’d add to what Luca said is that this isn’t a traditional washed coffee. It’s been processed using the carbonic maceration method and I think I read that it’s had 2 or 3 passes. I still don’t know heaps about carbon maceration other than Sasa Sestic has been an exponent of it for a number of years and was essentially responsible for bringing it to market as the coffee he used at WBC ‘15 was processed this way. It’s a method stolen from the wine industry. I think it’s an anerobic type of fermentation, but not 100% sure. I can’t remember if Sestic found a producer using it in 2015 or the producer used it at his request. Interesting stuff though and it’ll all the on the Ona or Project Origin websites somewhere.
                      It is indeed true that this is a CM process, but I don't know how important that is in this case. The fact that something is CM of itself doesn't really tell you anything; there might be very little whole berry contact time. Instead of just telling us what happens, Ona/Project Origin have chosen to invent their own names for the processes. These made up names don't seem to have found traction outside of their coffees, but at least they seem to be a relatively useful guide once you have tasted a few. This one is "Diamond", which I gather tastes pretty much like regular washed coffees, which seems to be what Ona are saying in their website description.

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                      • #12
                        Think that's expensive, Rocky?! Two weeks ago I was offered green beans from Panama, farm gate price @$10,000 USD / kg (about $16k+ AUD)!! .... ONA are in the little league!!
                        ;-)

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                        • 338
                          338 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Chokki, what size sample did they send you to try?

                        • Dimal
                          Dimal commented
                          Editing a comment
                          43 beans... ;-)

                      • #13
                        Thanks for the good wishes and helpful information, Guys. I appreciate your interest.
                        Up here in the country there isn't anyone doing anything 'experimental' but I have enjoyed a few lighter roast, more citrus/flowery coffees in Canberra on occasions.
                        There is a very progressive outfit called "The Espresso Room" in the South-Point Centre at Tuggeranong that is my 'local' when in Canberra.
                        Also I enjoyed the "Ethiopia Sidamo Ardi Naturals" from Beanbay so I am hopeful that the Panama Savage will suit my taste and maybe expand my horizons a bit.
                        A 'Long-black' is my preference but I am happy to drink whatever showcases the bean best.
                        The 'grind' will be a bit of a punt but I'm thinking maybe a little coarser than the 'Wow' that I use as my benchmark. In any case a couple of single-shot pours should sort that out.

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                        • #14
                          Will definitely be interesting to hear your take on the results in the cup Rocky...

                          Mal.

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                          • #15
                            338 Dimal They didn't send a sample.... 30g roasted or 50g green sample is $375 US+shipping :-o

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