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Upgrade path from Breville Barista Express

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  • Upgrade path from Breville Barista Express

    Hi all. New here ?

    My partner and I are massive coffee lovers and have owned this Barista Express since new for about 6-7 years now. For what it's worth, I have always felt we get great coffee from the machine when compared to most baristas around. However this is when making flat whites where the flavour of the milk helps override the bitterness I'm getting in the espresso.

    I want to go next level and I'm trying to work out a fairly budget friendly way to go about it. As I have discovered, good espresso is super nuanced with multiple layers to it. We buy locally roasted whole beans that we grind in the in-built grinder. I have the grinder on the finest setting and I still find I have to overload the portafilter to get a "good" extraction in terms of pressure, though it tastes bitter. I'm definitely not happy with it.

    Here are a few questions I have:
    1. How much will a better grinder improve the delivery we're getting out of the Barista Express?
    2. Though we regularly clean the machine, I've never had it serviced. How much does a proper service improve performance?
    3. With all the variables at play, how can I tell if the quality of the beans are a problem?
    In terms of upgrades I have been considering:
    • A separate grinder. Happy to buy second hand though commercial stuff would be too big for our meagre kitchen.
    • Coffee scale
    • A new espresso machine (second hand ok)
    In terms of budget I could work with a range of $1,000-$3,000. The smaller the better as we're supposed to be saving for renovations haha

    Cheers
    Last edited by Javaphile; 24 June 2021, 05:01 PM. Reason: Commercial link removed

  • #2
    1. How much will a better grinder improve the delivery we're getting out of the Barista Express?
    As you have a 6-7 year old machine you have the non adjustable inner burr, save by using shims.
    Since about 2016 they have an adjustable inner burr, it is like night and day difference. I remember with my old 2014 machine stuffing the portafilter like you describe.
    My 2017 one works without all the fuss.
    I am sure there are better grinders for more money but for multi daily convenience I can't beat what I have.

    Comment


    • #3
      You're always going to get better value for money going second hand (especially if you want to upgrade again later on) but that is a pretty huge price range! If you wanted to go the lower end you could probably find a second hand Breville Dual boiler (go the 920 not 900) and breville smart grinder for $600-800 (or $500-600 for the machine and get a different grinder).
      In terms of improvement between BDB and the Barista Express I've used both relatively side by side and find the dual boiler a fair bit better (even with just a smart grinder) in the cup but also with usability (the steaming on the barista makes me sad) and upgradability (standard 58mm baskets so you can use nice portafilters, shower screens, tampers, distribution tools).
      Everyone has different opinions but I think that once you're at the level of the dual boiler you should prioritise grinder quality before upgrading machine. I've had the BES920 for 4 or 5 years now and have upgraded grinders along the way (currently have a Monolith Flat) and have gotten an improvement in the cup each time (along with a few other upgrades like baskets and shower screen). We also got a Profitec Pro 700 and Compak K3 at work and it was a struggle to get coffee as good as at home on the machine until I brought in my own grinder. I recently upgraded to a Pro 700 at home too and I feel like that was another improvement in the cup (and with steam time, rotary pump <3 <3 etc.) but not as much as going from the Compak K3 to a top end grinder.
      If you're happy with single dosing you could do a lot worse than the DF64 that was (or is still?) in the marketplace and a second hand Breville Dual Boiler off Gumtree or something. $1200 or so all in roughly?
      At the upper end of your price range you might be able to get an E61 dual boiler (Profitec Pro 700, ECM something, Alex Duetto) in the $2500 range and pick up a $500 grinder (or stretch a few hundred more to that DF64)

      Comment


      • #4
        I am a newbie on these forums so you are welcome to ignore
        if you’re on a budget the Baratza Sette grinder is night and day better than a breville smart grinder (or their inbuilt grinder). I had a SGP for a few years and recently upgraded to the Baratza. Grind is much more consistent. (Although my technique on everything else needs work, the grind consistency is great to not have to worry about).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by WarrenK View Post
          As you have a 6-7 year old machine you have the non adjustable inner burr, save by using shims.
          Yep I heard that I could adjust the burr so I opened it up and discovered I had the older model. Bugger.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mthomas87 View Post
            that is a pretty huge price range!
            Yeah I know. It will affect whether I buy sooner or later. I don't want to waste money polishing a turd. If I need to upgrade the machine AND get a grinder, so be it.

            Originally posted by mthomas87 View Post
            If you wanted to go the lower end you could probably find a second hand Breville Dual boiler (go the 920 not 900) and breville smart grinder for $600-800 (or $500-600 for the machine and get a different grinder).
            I was looking at the BDB, however I thought there may be better machines for the price since Breville is pretty consumer focused.

            Originally posted by mthomas87 View Post
            If you're happy with single dosing you could do a lot worse than the DF64 that was (or is still?) in the marketplace and a second hand Breville Dual Boiler off Gumtree or something. $1200 or so all in roughly?
            At the upper end of your price range you might be able to get an E61 dual boiler (Profitec Pro 700, ECM something, Alex Duetto) in the $2500 range and pick up a $500 grinder (or stretch a few hundred more to that DF64)
            Single dosing wouldn't bother me, however I will have to talk to the gf since she makes coffee daily as well.

            One other consideration with a grinder is that we sometimes like to have pour-over to lessen the milk intake. The grinder would have to go coarse enough for that.

            Comment


            • mthomas87
              mthomas87 commented
              Editing a comment
              Especially at the second hand price I don’t think you can find anything remotely near the Breville Dual Boiler. Buying new at RRP is possibly a different matter though.
              Single dosing and being able to go from espresso to pour over work very well together.

            • deevus
              deevus commented
              Editing a comment
              I haven't seen any BDB locally yet but I will be checking regularly.

          • #7
            Originally posted by jasiano View Post
            I am a newbie on these forums so you are welcome to ignore
            if you’re on a budget the Baratza Sette grinder is night and day better than a breville smart grinder (or their inbuilt grinder). I had a SGP for a few years and recently upgraded to the Baratza. Grind is much more consistent. (Although my technique on everything else needs work, the grind consistency is great to not have to worry about).
            I'll check it out. Thanks!

            Comment


            • #8
              There’s a Bezzera Galatea Domus for sale locally for $1500. I’m not sure how old it is. It seems to get alright reviews on this forum. Though I’d need to get a grinder first.

              Comment


              • Dimal
                Dimal commented
                Editing a comment
                Yes, these are really high quality machines, so long as it has been well maintained and is currently in very good nick for that sort of money...

              • deevus
                deevus commented
                Editing a comment
                Ok well the seller says it is 3-4 years old. I'm going to assume 4-5 years being FB marketplace. What would be the expected lifespan of a Bezzera machine?

            • #9
              Regarding decent grinders, there are currently three listed one after the other in the 4-Sale section.
              Worth a look...

              Mal.
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • deevus
                deevus commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for that. I did have a look. I'll be watching for listings in NSW as I would rather do pickup.

            • #10
              Thanks for all the advice. I have picked up a used Bezzera Galatea Domus and a Smart Grinder Pro for under $1,500.

              Comment


              • #11
                Click image for larger version

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                Here it is all setup. Works great! The water hose is coming out the front at the moment as I will need to create a hole for it somewhere. This is such an upgrade from the Barista Express!

                Comment

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