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Double ristretto base - commercial

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  • #31
    Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

    Im with Chris. Every machine is different and I think counting is a guide, not a rule. If you decide to time the shot it doesnt matter when you start, as long as you start at the same point in the process, every time.

    Isnt it more important to make a determination based on what you see pouring into the cup?

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    • #32
      Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

      Guys, I keep stressing Im very new to this so pinch of salt if necessary - my process is based on results and taste with my gear. I started taking notes on day one so Id have observations to go back to. My posts are based on those observations.

      Every time I changed beans - and as stated during the day with the same beans - I studiously adjusted grind for the magical approx 25 seconds (from pressure ramp). I was and still am convinced that my dose and tamp procedure is consistent enough for only the smallest variation as not to matter (+/- a second).

      The problem was the results - which at the end of all we do and say is what matters. Grinding finer and pulling longer (more of a mouse tail instead of rat tail...whatever that means anyway) was delivering far superior tasting shots both short black and flat white. The 25 second shots were good, just not AS good and it is now via about 10 sets of taste buds - not just mine.

      I dont question the guide or suggest in any way it is wrong. I just found for me and mine I needed to add time to it. And if the rule of thumb is to count from the handle coming up well...add another 4 seconds!

      I find watching the colour and consistency of what is coming out of the spout(s) is my BEST indicator of wether itll be good, bad or somewhere in between.

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      • #33
        Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

        Ill take colour over seconds every time.

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        • #34
          Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

          Wrecker, stick with what youre doing - if it works for you, and your customers then hang the rules!

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          • #35
            Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

            Thank you TG and Dennis. I felt it was time I went out on a limb and posted what Ive been doing. To get support and encouragement removes the last of the lingering doubt...

            As ridiculous as this may sound, my wife the (formerly) non coffee drinker proved to be probably my best indicator. She now has her "long shot" every morning (short black cut a tad short with about 20 ml hot water added). Since giving up the 25 second theory and strangling it out to 35-40 seconds (which makes her sort of ristretto shot about 25 -30) she has declared the shots to be consistent, and more importantly superior in taste and balance to the first one that got her hooked in the first place. She also adds that theres no "twinge" - which after tasting one I presume is her way of saying the acidity and other flavours are balanced.

            Now she complains that the two times shes tried to show off her new found fondness for coffee with workmates at cafes the experience has been abysmal. Im kinda taking some pride in that.

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            • #36
              Re: Double ristretto base - commercial

              Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1216451409/20#27 date=1217293840
              Originally posted by Thundergod link=1216451409/20#26 date=1217293264
              I thought the accepted view was that you started counting from when you flick the switch/lever.
              Hi TG,

              I think that for those who have machines with inbuilt pre-infusion, its difficult to suggest a count based on flicking a switch or raising a lever- For example, a Minore II infusion is much slower than that on other brands. Once you know your machine, I guess its possible in your specific case.

              That said, I never count. For me its about the balance of the shot to produce the best espresso. Making a pour conform with a "rule" is not always the best answer....

              Chris
              Yeah some good points being raised here. Things differ from machine to machine. Like Chris has said, the Minore II has a slower infusion than others. I used to read things like if the pour isnt coming through after 7 seconds thats it, sink shot. ok, maybe not sink shot but used to freak me out that sometimes I wasnt getting any pour after 8-9 seconds. That was when I first got the machine. Ive learnt to adjust and realise that this brain box is giving different messages compared to other prosumers I had used. Ive noticed slight differences in the ramp pressure/speed also in other machines. All part of the learning curve.
              I rarely time my pours. Mainly only when Im running a new bean or adjusting the grinder back from a courser (for syphon or p-over), or sometimes just for the heck of it. When I do time, its from the time I lift the lever. But I always go by colour.

              I reckon youve gotta add in pre-infusion to your pours when timing - I mean the coffee has started brewing.

              my 2.02c

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