what are the dosing techniques that you use?

[chartres Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chartres]

Guys,
this is not exactly the freshest of topics. And I guess after Chris guide on espresso making on e61 group not much could be added...
Its just in my machine the shower screen is reasonably low. So for me, correct dosing (especially if I want to updose) is often hard, as I end up with too much coffee in a basket, cant fit it without disturbing the puck. That is, for example, if i fill the basket tapping few times on the bench, level and then tamp. Same when I fill, press with the tamper weight, fill, level and then tamp
On the other hand, if I try to avoid tapping while the basket is being filled, with my doserless Isomac grinder, its hard not be messy and evenly fill the basket. Plus when you do not tap and just level after the basket is filled, it might be unevenly distributed, I guess..
So I am really struggling to achieve consistency in dosing and I am running out of fresh ideas on how to make dosing simple, consistent and right.

Please help, any advice is appreciated...
Ed

[raphec Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close raphec]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I overfill my basket, scrape off excess, then i do a very light tamp. I then tap the basket with the tamper handle to level out the coffee in the basket then place the portafilter onto my tamping mat and give a hard tamp.

Gives me a very consistent shot.

[Koffee_Kosmo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

Yep I experienced the same problem with the Bezzera
I have overcome this with a couple of solutions

Before the Macap M4D grinder I dosed by weight
Just a little extra hight to the puck resulted in touching the screen and causing a weakness further resulting in channelling

Then I got a flat Pullman tamper with the LM Double basket (takes 18+ gr)
thats for my up dosing/stronger brew that only I like in my household

For all the baskets I follow the depth lines on the Pullman tamper it helps quite a bit
It also helps in keeping and checking if the tamp is level

Second
I am going to purchase a convex tamper to allow the group head screen to follow the contour of the puck

You still need to know the depth you require to tamp in your baskets that is optimum for your machine

So you could also place an indication line inside the basket for reference
(I haven’t tried this but was thinking of doing it)

Hope that helps

KK

[Wrecker Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Wrecker]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I overfill my basket, scrape off excess, then i do a very light tamp. I then tap the basket with the tamper handle to level out the coffee in the basket then place the portafilter onto my tamping mat and give a hard tamp.

Gives me a very consistent shot.

Exactly what I do. Being new to this Im a big fan of the KISS principle and the above fits nicely and worked for me. When I tried tapping etc Id end up with coffee on the shower screen before infusion = bad, or expanding puck into shower screen = bad. The above seemed to max it out without running into either problem and is now such a routine that I get surprising consistency.

Now, the SINGLE basket, that is still a dark science...

[pie_in_ear Banned Find all posts View Profile Close pie_in_ear]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

Try this technique:

1) Overfill basket
2) Tap PF to collapse coffee (it is important to keep your tap consistant. If you tap
2ce do that everytime. If you tap 100 times, do that everytime)
3) Top up with grounds if neccissary
4) level (depending on your shower screen clearance this can be flat or curved. If you
have a low shower screen you may need to scrape out some coffee. Here is a tip,
get a hard business card and cut a curve to scrape out the coffee with or use your
finger with a curve to it.
5) Tamp

Hopefully this will enable you to get some consistency with your dosing. Its trial and error to get your curve right.

[chartres Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chartres]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

one more question...

when I use the same technique on different blends, when I look at true-tamp rings on the Pullman I see that the tamper position (how deep it is in the basket) is different for different beans.
Its ok, insnt it? I mean the beans have different consistency, grinder setting is changed all the time depending on the weather, age of beans, phase of the moon...

[fatboy_1999 Señor Ding Dong Find all posts View Profile Close fatboy_1999]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I find that different beans require different grind fineness, but Im still aiming for the same dose and tamp level etc.
Other may disagree.

However, to me, the most important 3 things are:

How does it taste?
How does it taste?
How does it taste?

OK - Technically speaking, its only 1 thing, but its such an important thing, I think its worth mentioning 3 times!

Brett.

[Martial_Monkey Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Martial_Monkey]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I find that different beans require different grind fineness, but Im still aiming for the same dose and tamp level etc.
Other may disagree.

However, to me, the most important 3 things are:

How does it taste?
How does it taste?
How does it taste?

OK - Technically speaking, its only 1 thing, but its such an important thing, I think its worth mentioning 3 times!

Brett.

Somebodys been watching too much Red Dwarf  ;D


Martial
- busy smoking kippers for breakfast.

[chartres Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chartres]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I find that different beans require different grind fineness, but Im still aiming for the same dose and tamp level etc.
Other may disagree.
...

How does it taste?
How does it taste?
How does it taste?
...

Hi, Brett!

it pours ok (when the grind is correct) most of the time. It tastes good when it pulls good. now when I just tap twice after overfilling the basket and level, tamp - the level of coffee in the basket is reasonably low not to touch shower screen too much... so I have a bit of consistency with the same blend

but with successive shots from different blends, especially if one is decaf (and I adjust the grinder down one dial) I definitely have different depth of the tamper with seemingly the same tamp pressure. Am I kidding myself and it means I havent got consistency?

[fatboy_1999 Señor Ding Dong Find all posts View Profile Close fatboy_1999]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

Well,

I can only really speak from my experience here.
When I started getting seriously into coffee, I was chanting the mantra - 30ml in 30 seconds (or 60ml in 30 seconds for a double).

The coffee tasted good.

I then did a workshop run by Chris from Talk Coffee.
He explained a number of things and showed practical demonstrations.
It became clear to me that I was not grinding fine enough and my shots were blonding fairly early in the extraction.
For me the answer was - grind finer and tamp lighter.
My extractions got richer and I started the practice of cutting the shot when blonding started (and keeping a rough count of the time).

The coffee tastes better than it did before.

If the blonding occurs inside 20 seconds, then it most likely means a finer grind required. If the blonding is over the 35 mark, then coarser. I try to keep the dosing and tamping consistent so that the grind is the main variable I am adjusting.


It is a constant learning experience though and, as I keep stressing, this is just how I do it.

Brett.

[flynnaus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close flynnaus]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

It became clear to me that I was not grinding fine enough and my shots were blonding fairly early in the extraction.
For me the answer was - grind finer and tamp lighter.

Thats useful info - when you say tamp lighter are you measuring your tamp pressure (using bathroom scales)? If so, what tamp pressure is ideal? 15kg?

[fatboy_1999 Señor Ding Dong Find all posts View Profile Close fatboy_1999]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

I have not measured my tamp pressure with scales, so I cannot be precise.

I imagine that my current tamping is less than 15kg, but I really dont know how much.

If I get the urge, I might try and measure it over the weekend.

Ideal? Theres a LOT of discussion around that.
I reckon its good to use 15kg as a guideline, but get a routine that works for you and then try changing one variable at a time to see if you can improve your output.

[flynnaus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close flynnaus]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

Thanks

Well Ill keep working at it but the finer grind lighter tamp you suggest may help me with blonding happening after about 12 - 15 seconds

[pie_in_ear Banned Find all posts View Profile Close pie_in_ear]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

... I definitely have different depth of the tamper with seemingly the same tamp pressure. Am I kidding myself and it means I havent got consistency?

Different bean densities will result in this. If you collapse your basket everytime you can eliminate most of this. Of course its all in the cup but,.....have a look at the pour speed. Not the total time, but the way the speed of the pour changes. If your pour speeds up throughout the shot I would try a higher dose. Aim for a steady speed pour from start (not first few seconds) to finish.

Your dose will need to vary for the age and type of beans you are using. When the beans are fresh and gassy you will need a lower dose, or if they are soft, you will need a lower dose too. Remember your dose can only really be measured after you tamp (or by weighing the grounds) but there are signs to llok for and things to do to ensure you can control it.

One of the hardest things for a barista to learn is consistent dosing, being that .1 of a gram can affect the flavour of the cup.
On a side note, I was recently put to the test by my youngest and newest barista in the making after that dosing comment. After a run of shots being poured I told him to work on his dose. He replied that he did what I did, and layed down a challange, 10 baskets each. I was within .2 grams from lowest to highest with 7/10 the same, He was .5 grams apart with 3/10 the same. We both use the same technique, Ive just been using it longer.

[chartres Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chartres]

Re: what are the dosing techniques that you use?

...

thanks a lot, Pioneer Roaster! it was very valuable and I guess I kind of knew it - practice, practice, practice...

one thing though... its the second time I hear about "collapsing the basket".. what is that exactly? I remember David from First Pour was also talking about "collapsing" referring to dosing, but I couldnt really find any details..